Going to be following replies to this as I am in the same boat and wondering the same things... I know more shops have the gear to do dyno tunes on power comanders then they do on the ECU. I'm still confused about which way to go...
Basically, I figure I won't have enough money to get my bike dyno tuned any time in the next year or two. :lol:
So, for right now, I'm trying to get the best bang for my buck in the $200 range. Plus, as I read on Flash-Tune.com, it seems the ECU tune can control a lot more parameters than just the PC3 can. I think the PC3 only controls the lower injectors, where as the flash tune would be all injectors and timing, and incorporates the OEM systems (atmospheric pressure, intake temperature, etc.) and can adjust on the fly. Seems like really cool stuff, I just want to make sure it's not all snake oil.
Yeah, I don't have any spare money right now for the dyno tune either. Plus I keep hearing similar things about how the ECU is better to tune. I would love to sell my PC3 and go get a ECU flash. The extra trunk space will be nice too lol
There are several threads on here covering the flashtune route. Flastune did the following for me
.timing advace for 91 octane
.pair disable
.set disable
.lower cooling fan on temp(why wouldn't you want that?)
.fuel map set up for whatever. In this latest flash, full sys exhaust.
.rev limit 15000
May be some shit I missed. Also if you upgrade or change things Flashtune will reflash free of charge.
You can always run a PV5 in conjunction with the Flash. Dyno tune if desired. The Wolich log box sounds great also. I'm not to familiar with the operational end though.
Had Bazzaz ZFI. Didn't do shit. May have been different with a dyno tune though. I did feel a difference with the Flash tune. Like lordviper13 said. Hot engine burns cleaner. You think the manufacturer sets the temp for performance? Wrong. It's about fewer emmisions (cleaner burning). As long as bikes don't need a smog check, I want the most I can get out of my bike. And once again props to lordviper13. Cooler engine=more power.
I started a new thread hoping to get the most up to date information, as I'm sure this is something that changes all the time as more people do it and more data is collected for more bikes.
Plus, the old threads had some conflicting information and a lot of people I don't have experience with on the forum. Ideally I'd like to see some input from people I'm familiar with so that I can feel more confident in the information.
I would buy (or diy) the flashing interface and flash it myself. I don't think that the Woolich log box is compatible with <K8 (yet?), but you might be able to use the autotune feature with a laptop.
Interesting point. Would Flash-Tune just sell me the bin files and definitions and everything for me to load it myself?
Where would I buy an interface? Last time I looked into flashing a 2006 750 ECU it involved dremeling into the housing and soldering up your own harness.
just sent my ecu out for the flash. my plan is to use the bazzaz auto tune feature to piggy back off the fuel trims created by the flash then put it on the dyno to get a hp and a/f readout. this will determine if i go ahead and get the tune tweaked on the dyno. i'm mainly concerned with verifying my fuel trims.
I've been writing in the wrong thread lol, there's another similar one going. Anyway:
Was just talking to a pretty reputable shop near me and they were saying that the ECU on my 06 600 can't be dyno tuned by anyone, only power commander. Another said it could it be at their shop. Another now says it can, only suzuki's can. Every shop has a different story....
Another said they don't do ECU's but it can be done, but that he could tune the commander better then any of the guys doing ecu tunes.
Overall I think more people are trying to say that the power commander yields a "better" tune performance wise... Not sure if that's just because they're not good enough to do the ECU, but in the end I think I'd rather have someone who is very experienced at doing a commander, then someone who does a shit job of my ECU.
But it is evident that the ECU has so many more parameters to tune then the PC and IMO seems like the more intelligent route to go. I'm leaning towards getting the ECU done if I can find someone who knows there shit, and will do a complete tune (all gears, every throttle position, with weight, different environment settings, etc.)
Another said they don't do ECU's but it can be done, but that he could tune the commander better then any of the guys doing ecu tunes.
Overall I think more people are trying to say that the power commander yields a "better" tune performance wise... Not sure if that's just because they're not good enough to do the ECU, but in the end I'd rather have someone who is very experienced at doing a commander, then someone who does a shit job of my ECU.
That guy is full of sh*t. :smash: :Laughing:
You will get much better results when you tune ECU's maps. PC/Bazzaz only make changes based on TPS and with Ecueditor you can map both IAP and TPS maps. That makes on/off throttle transitions much smoother than you can ever achieve with a piggy back system. Also, pretty much all of the professional race teams use a kit ECU and GSXRs already have a "kit" ECU.
I dont know about anyone else but with flashtune.com you can send them your dyno jet file and they'll put that on your ecu. So if you have a custom map for your bike that can be used on your ecu. Then along with all the other mods that can be taken away or added. New just recently they can add any quick shifter to your ecu, I used dyno jet pull. As stated I would'nt raise your rev limit unless you have internal work done. They flashed mine with that and I never went past 13 on my 06 1000. After the second reflash I had them put it back to stock. So with all this said I got a pc3, im going to build my head put on the dyno getting the map then going to reflash with that map then sell my pc. This service is by far the best bang for the buck!!!!!!
I dont know why people think a generic map from an ECU flash company is any better than a generic BAZ or PC map.
Info below from the website and the bit I have read about ecu editor suggests you can tune on a dyno just the same as Baz or PC, its just a matter of having the software and understanding how to use it.
When/if I get time I will but a spare ecu. and a log box etc and play with it, just dont have time at the moment.
What can the ecueditor.com software do?
The stock Suzuki Engine ECU contains a lot of advanced features that many owners are not even aware of. The ecueditor.com software allows you to unlock these feature and get the full potential out of your ECU.
Tune and adjust fuel maps (IAP and TPS)
Set RPM limiters and remove top speed limiters
Autotune with data logging to laptop
Tune and adjust the ignition maps
Quickshifter and autoshifting
Turbo fueling and boost control module
Nitrous mapping with ramp up timer and solenoid control
Disable Stock O2 sensor and closed loop functionality
Disable PAIR valve (air bleed into exhaust)
Adjustable Traction Control (slew rate RPM limiter)
Adjustable Launch Control (2 stage RPM limiter)
Programmable launch and shift light
Numerous other advanced tweaks and mods for the serious race bike setup
The reason its better is cause you dont have to go out and buy the stand alone unit that runs 300-500 bucks depending on witch unit you want. And with the pc you need the ignition module for the quick shifter witch is more money. For 150 bucks you send your ecu in they flash to what you want and you have it back within the same week. Then you have the options the quick shifter, advanced timing, lower fan temp, eliminate some of the unneeded censors, higher rev limit AND add what ever pc/baz map file you want. I bet the more they get into this they may find a way to get traction control out of the stock ecu as well. And to mention if your close to one of these places that has the hook up they can dyno it with a custom map.
Lots of good info here! I appreciate all the input. Here are some final questions:
I currently have a PC3 with a map I got from the PC website. This map is for a 2006 750 with a K&N race filter and a Jardine slip-on. This is my exact setup.
So, I'm guessing that at some point in time, Dynojet dyno tuned a bike with this setup, and then made the map available on their website. So, shouldn't this map be a perfect match for my bike? Or is there that big of a difference between individual bikes, even with the same exact setups?
Or, is the big difference in the ECU flash being able to control all injectors + ignition maps and IAP mapping?
Dynojet is a big company with a big database of bikes and tunes. My only remaining concern is that Flash-Tune may not have a dyno tune to reference for my specific setup, where as the PC is a map for a bike exactly like mine.
The big difference between the flash and pc is the flash offers so much more like I stated and it'll do every the pc does. You have the pc now when you send your ecu in give them your mods and they'll flash that map to your ecu. And these guys have tons of dyno time just call and talk to them. Allot of people use flashtune heres there link http://www.flash-tune.com/
The thing I am happiest with about my flashed ECU is that I no longer have the retarded timing maps. On liter bikes the low gear timing is so neutered it is not funny.
No matter what system you got or have the custom dyno tune is the best over all performance but hence the ecu's capabilities when flashed is superior over any stand alone units!! You put a pc v on with auto tune let it do its thing then put it on a dyno and see what you get. Next same bike with a pc3, v or baz and custom dyno tune it, the dyno tuned bike will make more power than the other and have a flatter more usable power band!!
The question is to flash or not and when you dont have any of it including the stand alones, its way cheaper to flash then to get all the other bs. For 150 bucks you get everything in one spot the ecu what else is there to consider:0001136745-huh:
Factor in that most ECU flashers will also re-flash for free and it's hard to beat, especially when you consider the cost of a PC/Bazzaz and then dyno time.
I think the only other, better option would be to actually have my bike tuned AT THE SHOP that does ECU reflashing. But I don't think that's a viable option where I'm at (Chicago area).[/QUOTE]
What you could do is get all the flash computer programs from flashtune and have the tuner use it when they dyno tune you bike. You may have to let them use your lap top to do this. Just an idea to ask your local tuner:0001136745-huh:
Get a PCV with autotune or Bazazz with Z-AFM, bring the bike with the exhaust system and have them dyno tune it. It should run great, although may not have as many altered parameters as a custom ECU reflash.
hey man, I would keep the power commander and get a dyno tune, you cant afford it? around by me i got mine done for about 100 bucks, only about an hour and a half long to do at 75 bucks an hour labor thats it, ECU flashes are legit but they are really no different than base maps for the power commanders.
dont forget about getting those block off plates installed
ECU flash is in my budget range. I wish I could find something in my area for that cheap but it's not happening. I really like the fact that you can lower fan temp as well!
Put a full m4 on my bike and got a flash from flash tune. It is an incredible difference. One day i might get a piggyback but in all honesty i don't need it. I do not race, i do not drag, i just ride the mountains. One day could be 110 and another could be 60 and ill notice more difference in power just based on temp than i will from an extra 2 hp. Throttle off-on jerkiness was greatly improved, power is much smoother, above 8k it absolutely screams. With all the options that a flash has vs buying piggybacks, fuel, ignition, secondary injectors, and tuning for that extra 2-4 hp, it seems crazy. With the money I saved (well didn't spend) i bought a new pair of boots and a set of tires. Granted boots and tires doesn't give me "street cred" at starbucks. Maybe if i get an icon vest I'll be cool enough.......
I had my ecu flashed back in 09 (have a 08 750) had a full exhaust with a pre mapped pc. took it to flash tune back then and they took off my ecu an flashed it they also cleared out my pc and told me they would be able to hook up to pc and make changes if I wanted so I left it on for a few years no problems bike ran great. for some unknown reason pc threw a FI code once I had pc removed bike ran perfect, started doing trackdays and was fouling plugs.change plugs ,back to normal. Like Said in some posts, the ecu is a basic flash and I think the same as a pc download which ones bike may react different to others, if you know what your doing (which I don't) send the map you want when you get the flash.my plan is to go back and get the dyno tune this way its on paper to know my engine is at top performance. yes it is more money but I hate being the one saying "I Should of done this" I also wonder if the same maps out there are updated and are they different for every year bike?? not talking bad on flash tune at all think its a better way to go.but if your that guy who likes to mess with mapping buy the adapter
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