Usefull Suspension Tuning Guide

foggysps
12-14-2005, 08:42 PM
Circuit One Suspension (503) 722-8475 Suspension Tuning Guide by Dave Hodges Street Bike or Road Racing Applications With incorrect suspension setup tire wear is increased and handling suffers, resulting in rider fatigue. Lap times can be dramatically slower and overall safety for both street and race enthusiasts is another issue. Add the frustration factor and it just makes sense properly setup your suspension. The following guide will help you dial in your suspension for faster and safer riding both on and off the track. Basic Setup: Check the following -Forks/Rear Shock - Race sag 25-30 mm, 1 - 1 3/16 inch -Forks/Rear Shock - Street sag 30-35 mm, 1 3/16 - 1 3/8 inch -Check chain alignment. lf not correct, sprocket wear is increased. -Proper tire balance and pressure. If out of balance, there will be vibration in either wheel -Steering head bearings and torque specifications, If too loose, head will shake at high speeds. -Front end alignment. Check wheel alignment with triple clamps. If out of alignment, fork geometry will be incorrect and steering will suffer. -Crash damage, check for proper frame geometry Forks: Adjustment Locations =Rebound adjustment (If applicable) is located near the top of the fork. =Compression adjustment (if applicable) is located near the bottom of the fork. =Spring preload adjustment (if applicable) is generally hex style and located at the top of the fork. Forks: Lack of Rebound Symptoms: -Forks are plush. but increasing speed causes loss of control and traction. -The motorcycle wallows exiting the turn causing fading traction and loss of control. -When taking a corner a speed, you experience front-end chatter,loss of traction and control. -Aggressive input at speed lessons control and chassis attitude suffers. -Front end fails to recover after aggressive input over bumpy surfaces. Solution: * Insufficient rebound. Increase rebound "gradually" until control and traction are optimized and chatter is gone. Forks: Too Much Rebound Symptoms: -Front end feels locked up resulting in harsh ride. -Suspension packs in and fails to return, giving a harsh ride. Typicalty after the first bump, the bike will skip over subsequent bumps. -With acceleration, the front end will tank slap or shake violentty due to lack of front wheel tire contact. Solution: * Too much rebound. Decrease rebound "gradually" until control and traction are optimized. Forks: Lack of Compression Symptoms: -Front end dives severely, sometimes bottoming out over heavy bumps or during aggressive breaking. -Front feels soft or vague similar to lack of rebound. -When bottoming, a clunk is heard. This is due to reaching the bottom of fork travel. Solution: * Insufficient compression. Increase "gradually" until control and traction are optimized. Forks: Too Much Compression Symptoms: 1/-Front end rides high through the comers, causing the bike to steer wide. It should ride in the middle of suspension travel. Solution: * Too much compression. Decrease compression "gradually" until bike neither bottoms or rides high. 2/-Front end chatters or shakes entering turns. This is due to incorrect oil height and/or too much low speed compression damping Solution: * First, verify that oil height is correct. If correct, then decrease compression "gradually' until chaffering and shaking ceases. 3/-Bumps and ripples are felt directly in the triple clamps and through the chassis This causes the front wheel to bounce over bumps. Solution: * Decrease compression "gradually" until control is regained. 4/- Ride is generally hard, and gets even harder when braking or entering turns. Solution: *Decrease compression 'gradually' until control is regained. Shock : Adjustment Locations -Rebound adjustment (if applicable) is located at the bottom of the shock. -Compression adjustment (if applicable) is located on the reservoir. -Spring Preload located at the top of the shock. Shock: Lack of Rebound Symptoms: -The ride will feel soft or vague and as speed increases, the rear end will want to wallow and/or weave over bumpy surfaces and traction suffers. -Loss of traction will cause rear end to pogo or chatter due to shock returning too fast on exiting a corner. Solution: * Insufficient rebound: Increase rebound until wallowing and weavin disappears and control and traction are optimized. Shock: Too Much Rebound Symptoms: -Ride is harsh, suspension control is limited and traction is lost. -Rear end will pack in, forcing the bike wide in comers, due to rear squat. It will slow steering because front end is tiding high. When rear end packs in, tires generally will overheat and will skip over bumps. -When chopping throttle, rear end will tend to skip or hop on entries Solution: * Too much rebound. Decrease rebound "gradually" until harsh ride is gone and traction is regained. Decrease rebound to keep rear end packing. Shock: Lack of Compression Symptoms: -The bike will not turn in entering a turn. -With bottoming, control and traction are lost. -With excessive rear end squat, when accelerating out of corners,bike will tend to steer wide. Solution: * Insuficient compression. Increase compression "gradually" until traction and control is optimized and/or excessive rear end squat is gone. Shock. Too Much Compression Symptoms: -Ride is harsh. but not as bad as too much rebound. As speed increases, so does harshness. -There is very little rear end squat. This will cause loss of traction/sliding.Tire will overheat. -Rear end will want to kick when going over medium to large bumps. Solution: * Too much compression.Decrease compression until harshness is gone. decrease compression until sliding stops and traction is regained. Stock Tuning Limitations: New motorcycles purchased from the dealership are generally set-up on the soft side, for a rider in the weight range of 140-165 lbs. If you are not in this range, you must retune the suspension tor your weight within the internals of forks and shocks, the manufacturer puts valve with small venturis. This, along with shims, creates a damping curve. This works okay at slower speeds, but at higher speeds, when the suspension must react more quickly, the method cannot low enough oil and you experience hydraulic lock. With hydraulic lock, there is no damping. The fork and/or shock cannot dampen correctly and handling suffers. The solution is to revalve the active components for the proper damping curve. It does not matter what components you have, (Ohlins, Fox, KYB, Showa). If you can achieve the damping curve that is needed, it does not matter what brand name is on the component. Sometimes with stock components, when you turn the adjusters full in or out, you do not notice a difference. This is due to the fact that the manufacturer has put the damping curve in an area outside of your ideal range. After revalving, the adjuster will be brought into play, and when you make an adjustment, you will be able to notice that they effect the way the fork or shock perform. One of the problems with stock springs is, in most cases, it is of a progressive rate. This is to say, a spring at sag may be .85 kg per mm, and at 2.5 inches of travel, it may be 1.05 kg per mm, getting progressively stiffer. The ideal solution is to install a sprig with a straight rate, specific for your weight, and the weight of your motorcycle. In some cases, the factory installs a straight rate spring, but often the incorrect rate for your weight. Dave W. Hodges Circuit One Suspension

ravennh
12-14-2005, 08:58 PM
thanks.. and i must say foggy your a wealth of info and dunno about everyone else but I appreciate it.

maknot
12-14-2005, 10:23 PM
thanks.. and i must say foggy your a wealth of info and dunno about everyone else but I appreciate it. diddo fogman! that's some very useful info that probaly 75% of street riders have no idea of what's the where and which does what when it comes to their suspension.i think the suspension and brake setup should be the first things you tune in on your new or even old bike. everyone wants to get a pipe and all the add ons but fine tune what you have and upgrade the brakes, it will make for much, much better riding.( I.M.O. anyway) thanks foggy! :bowdown:

you da man
12-15-2005, 06:23 AM
diddo fogman! that's some very useful info that probaly 75% of street riders have no idea of what's the where and which does what when it comes to their suspension.i think the suspension and brake setup should be the first things you tune in on your new or even old bike. everyone wants to get a pipe and all the add ons but fine tune what you have and upgrade the brakes, it will make for much, much better riding.( I.M.O. anyway) thanks foggy! :bowdown: I would say about 95% of street riders don't know what the word "sag" means muchless the rest of the suspension. You are correct about riders wanting the other what-nots before they get concerned about their suspension...which is actually something that can keep them on the road or pitch them off. Then again, about 90-95% of sportbikes aren't ridden to even half their potential...even the 600's. Great info foggy. Never seen it put in such simple terms.

foggysps
12-15-2005, 07:11 AM
no prob guys anytime. When i wrecked my bike a few years back the first thing I did was have my suspension tuned at GMD Computrack in Framingham right after putting her back. It took me a few calls and trips to have it tuned to my style but the cash was well worth it in my opinion. Afterwards I put exhaust, jets, filter and other lil things...but they were last.

rntngsxr
12-15-2005, 08:37 AM
Then again, about 90-95% of sportbikes aren't ridden to even half their potential...even the 600's. agreed! :thumbup: Good stuff - thanks!

foggysps
12-15-2005, 08:44 AM
"you da man" know's his shit!

maknot
12-15-2005, 09:38 PM
I would say about 95% of street riders don't know what the word "sag" means muchless the rest of the suspension. You are correct about riders wanting the other what-nots before they get concerned about their suspension...which is actually something that can keep them on the road or pitch them off. Then again, about 90-95% of sportbikes aren't ridden to even half their potential...even the 600's. Great info foggy. Never seen it put in such simple terms. thanks man, and you're exactly right as well, didn't kevin schwantz or someone say that there are like maybe a very small percentage of riders who can ride the R1 to it's full potential on the street, and he said he wasn't one of them. that says ALOT!!!

crashnow
02-17-2006, 06:26 AM
foggy great little tuning guide, it is greatly appreciate. a lot of helpfully hints of where to start in getting your susp. perfect. :clap: :thumbup:

rideit4ever
02-18-2006, 11:22 PM
dude that was great info and very helpfull on some suspension setup adjustments that i'm doing this weekend.....thanks bro :bounce

nevacme
02-19-2006, 07:03 PM
thanks foggy i will try setting mine up sometime in march......when its warmer outside

Howza
02-23-2006, 03:59 AM
Any tips on how to align the front end? I eyeballed it this spring and seems fine tire wear is good. But looking straight at it its off. Is there a correct way to measure and check? Any help would be nice.

cocktailsndreams
02-27-2006, 04:16 AM
Much apreciation for the setup guide and i am sure it's useful in the right hands, HOWEVER.. i am new to biking and this it the first big bike i have had (GSX-R 600 SRAD) how do i know what the perfect set up should be? what is "sag" i assume it's something to do with compression!? how do i know if my bike is "wallowing" or if i'm getting "chatter" and its not just the way the bike "IS"? sorry for being such a pain in the arse! :bowdown:

bdvinco
04-05-2006, 09:46 AM
wow, thanks for all the info,, i printed that out and will :bowdown: now live in my toolbox

tlr2nv
05-25-2006, 06:19 AM
Good info. Know where I can find a guide to replacing fork springs on 750 Showa forks? I like doing all my work myself, but I have never pulled apart my forks before. I need instructions on disassembling and reassembling USD forks. :thumbup:

JIGWYNN
06-11-2006, 03:12 PM
German, German, French, german , german, Spanish.........I think I might go and get my bike checked out. I dont know what that shit means.

kautiongsr
07-15-2006, 03:51 PM
great info on suspension settings this help thanks

04jigsir600
07-19-2006, 03:30 PM
THX for the INFO

hk1000
10-07-2006, 05:08 AM
Hi Guys Can someone explain the difference to handling particularly connering, between raising the forks in the triple clamps and increasing the ride height at the rear via a spacer or the hydraulic system as on the Ohlins. Thanx hk1000

jonblaze
11-22-2008, 04:27 PM
subscribing

Fauropitotto
11-30-2008, 07:05 AM
you should lower the front forks, and increase the ride height. Doing this tightens up the rake and the trail. This translates to you being able to turn the bike easier, however the stability is decreased. Am I right suspension gurus?

argibson
11-30-2008, 08:16 AM
good stuff...this should be mandatory reading for all riders.

gixxer061000
03-25-2009, 03:21 PM
Can somebody explain the sag thing a little bit more? I would really appreciate it.

bustanut
03-30-2009, 01:54 PM
Can somebody explain the sag thing a little bit more? I would really appreciate it. static sag- the amount of suspension travel used when the bike is sitting vertical with only the weight of the bike on its wheels vs. the hieght of the bike with no weight on the suspension. race sag-the amount of suspension travel used when the bike is sitting vertical with the weight of the bike and fully geared up rider on the bike in proper riding position vs the height of the bike with no weight on the suspension. race sag is the ride height of the bike and is measured at both the front and rear of the bike.having too little or too much sag at either front or rear end of the bike will change its designed steering geometry. (picture a truck loaded down and squatting bad, vs doing a lift kit in just the rear) the vehicle doesn't steer the way it was designed to. a properly set suspension can make all the difference in tha world in handling and steering quickness. hope that helps you :thumbup:

bustanut
03-30-2009, 01:56 PM
check out www.onthethrottle.com for a good video series on bike set up.:thumbup: