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Old 04-11-2007, 03:17 PM   #1
scottrick
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Cool Converting gsxr 1000 engine into a mini sprint race car

I am making this post for my brother. He is work currently but frustrated beyond belief. He bought a 2005 (or 2006 - I am not certain) gsxr 1000 motor on ebay for his mini sprint car. He cannot get it to start. The engine cranks fine but has no spark or fuel. They (my dad and him) have confirmed that the computer is fine (it works in another bike, but a new computer in his that was confirmed working does not help his engine start). They are sure that it must be a wiring issue but have gone thru many diagrams and checked all of the wiring over the last month and cannot seem to figure out the issue. Being what it is, they cut the wiring harness and bypassed some things to adapt the engine to his race car. They are wondering if the issue has something to do with kill switches. They tell me that there are 3 of them and they are all "closed", but wonder if they have gotten some bum advice in that and if so, what is correct. He is suppose to race this weekend, but will be doing it fred flinstone style if he cannot get this figure out. Thanks for any help!
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Old 04-11-2007, 03:28 PM   #2
stepup
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Get a mechanic.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:18 PM   #3
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Get a mechanic.
+ Eleventy billion.

Wiring on that gen is a BIATCH.

I vote that its not the kill switch or inter locks, bc if it were, it wouldnt even crank. So, being efi, you can hear the fuel pump spinning? I'd get a fuel pressure guage onto the fuel rail and make sure it has pressure. Then, if still no run, TAKE IT IN, save yourself some time. Thats the bitch about ebay motors.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:19 PM   #4
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I'm assuming that you have a tank handy with a fuel pump? These injectors need like 100psi in the fuel rail. Someone should correct me on that pressure number if I am off. I'm guessing at the number.
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Old 04-11-2007, 04:29 PM   #5
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are you usign the stock suzuki ignition switch and fuel pump? if not, im willing to bet thats your problem. the ignition switch/wiring harness has a anit theft system built in and is a royal pain to bypass. also, if you arent using the stock fuel pump make sure the fuel pump relay is at least switching on.
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Old 04-11-2007, 07:52 PM   #6
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Question update on symtoms

we have no trigger from ecu to coils, injectors, and fuel pump relay. the computer has all the powers and grounds that i can find(good, no voltage drop). there is no anti theft system on this bike. the cam and crank sensors ohm check good. did replace with known good just to be sure. no change. the to sensor has been ohm checked, good. i siliconed it in the upright position to prevent midrace shut down. still shows good. even when to the extent of putting restistors in place of sensor, no change. i have put my computer on a known good bike and it ran. i've put a known good computer on my engine. no change. i've changed to a complete virgin harness, no cuts anywhere, no change. i can get get fuel pressure if i jumper the relay, no problem there. temp sensor, air sensor, baro sensor, throttle sensor, all ohm and volt check good. i,ve tried all the "kill switches" open and closed. no change. shy of dynamite i have no idea what to do from here!! please help if you know anything i have'nt tried yet. thank you in advance!!!!!!!!! email if you'd like at racininutah@juno.com
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:02 PM   #7
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cas

or

your attempt to bypass the "kill switches" didn't work and you need the real thing.

or

in your attempt to bypass the "kill switches" you don't have the proper combination (if only one kill switch is triggered the bike won't start)


You're in utah?
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:04 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scottrick View Post
we have no trigger from ecu to coils, injectors, and fuel pump relay. the computer has all the powers and grounds that i can find(good, no voltage drop). there is no anti theft system on this bike. the cam and crank sensors ohm check good. did replace with known good just to be sure. no change. the to sensor has been ohm checked, good. i siliconed it in the upright position to prevent midrace shut down. still shows good. even when to the extent of putting restistors in place of sensor, no change. i have put my computer on a known good bike and it ran. i've put a known good computer on my engine. no change. i've changed to a complete virgin harness, no cuts anywhere, no change. i can get get fuel pressure if i jumper the relay, no problem there. temp sensor, air sensor, baro sensor, throttle sensor, all ohm and volt check good. i,ve tried all the "kill switches" open and closed. no change. shy of dynamite i have no idea what to do from here!! please help if you know anything i have'nt tried yet. thank you in advance!!!!!!!!! email if you'd like at racininutah@juno.com
I was a fuel injection specialist for 5 years and when I ran into an issue like this I just remembered one thing. An engine only needs so many things to run. Check these and you should be able to isolate your problem. This is probably elementary but it usually worked for me.

Compression -probably not an issue but check anyways

Fuel- pressure at rail? Noid tester should tell you if the injectors are firing. Air in line? Try turning it off and on a few times and pull the rail to see if they are really firing.

Spark - Correct stroke? Fire?

Timing - If you didn't go into the internals this shouldn't be a problem.
Are you getting a good signal from the CPS?

Sorry if I'm talking below your level but I always think I know what's going on until i break it down to the easy shit.
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Old 04-11-2007, 08:41 PM   #9
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there is no anti theft system on this bike.

oh gosh im sorry, i just rebuilt one of those ignition switches not too long ago and had one hell of a time trying to figure out how to bypass that nifty little key switch problem. but dont mind me, i have no idea what im talkign about. continue on looking for fuel and sparks on the other end of the wiring harness.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:47 PM   #10
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the specs we see are 43psi. no, the fuel pump does not run because the relay is not being energized by the ecm, which also feeds the injectors. we can manually run the pump to the 43psi, but the injectors and ignition coils still get no pulse from the ecm. thanks for the reply
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:52 PM   #11
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fuel pump doesnt get turned on by the ecm. the ignition switch energizes the fuel pump relay and that turns on the pump. but what do i know.
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Old 04-11-2007, 09:55 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by scottrick View Post
the specs we see are 43psi. no, the fuel pump does not run because the relay is not being energized by the ecm, which also feeds the injectors. we can manually run the pump to the 43psi, but the injectors and ignition coils still get no pulse from the ecm. thanks for the reply
So what inputs does the ECM have to have to engage?
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:01 PM   #13
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Default please explain

i dont have an ignition switch to look at. just a diagram. there is no immobilizer wires going to the computer. if you can explain the ignition switch anti theft system you figured out and bypassed i would be very interested. thank you for your response.
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:09 PM   #14
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do you have proper resistance ? i remember the bike shop bypassing the key and they needed a 100 ohm resistor to make it work it would crank but nothing else until it had the proper resistance this was an 06 600 and im not sure what wire exactly it was just a thought it may help
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:09 PM   #15
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i dont understand what you mean. engage what? the inputs i know i have are the cam, crank, ect, air, baro, to sensors. thank you
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Old 04-11-2007, 10:21 PM   #16
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theres a wire coming from the ignition switch that will turn on your fuel pump relay. it goes from teh switch to the ECU and just passes right through the ecu and goes to the relay. i believe its the orange/yellow wire from the ignition harness. its a pain to trick it into thinking you have the key in. its easier to just find an ignition switch and key from a crashed bike. without that wire connected with teh proper voltage your fuel pump will never turn on. its there to keep folks from hot wiring your ignition by cutting splicing the wires. trust me on this one. it caused me ALOT of headache.
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Old 04-12-2007, 06:22 AM   #17
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wow
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Old 04-12-2007, 12:42 PM   #18
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Default It started!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to everyone for the help. I am the brother that started the thread. I have received word that the car started. I got that message thru my wife so I am not sure what the issue turned out to be, but I just wanted to say thanks. I will ask them to post the results when they can. They went from thinking that they were not going this weekend to now taking vacation days to be ready for Saturday. That being the case, I am not sure that they will be able to get into here and give their thanks and post what it turned out to be until possibly Sunday or Monday. Thanks again
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Old 04-15-2007, 04:04 PM   #19
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Default Thank You!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THANK YOU SOOOOOOOO MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP. IT TURN OUT THAT I NEEDED A RESISTOR IN THE IGN WIRE. I WAS REALLY CONFUSED WHEN YOU TOLD ME ABOUT IT BECAUSE THE MANUAL AND THE DIAGRAMS NEVER SAID ANYTHING ABOUT IT. I'M GLAD THAT YOU TOOK TIME TO EXPLAIN IT TO ME! IF IT WERENT FOR YOU GUYS, AND MY BROTHERS INTERNET EXPERTISE, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN WATCHING THE RACE. THANK YOU AGAIN FOR ALL YOUR HELP. IF I HAVE ANY OTHER PROBLEMS I WILL DEFINITLY USE THIS SITE TO FIGURE IT OUT. THANK YOU ALL SO MUCH AGAIN. I OWE YOU ALL BIG TIME!!!!!
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