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Old 01-18-2010, 07:05 PM   #1
noodle
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Default Need advice on track bike tires

I recently bought a fully-equipped GSXR 1000 track bike. It's an '02 and was used for club-level racing. The bike is in good shape and needs a few things like chain and sprockets.

I'm an experienced rider and am developing my skills on the track. I will need to put on a new set of tires in the next 3 or 4 track days and am looking for suggestions on what to use. The bike has Michelin Pilot Race tires on it, and the PO raced it in CCS and WERA events.

Since I'm learning and much slower than the previous owner, I am thinking I may not need race tires. Can someone share some perspectives on this and make some recommendations?

thanks,
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:36 PM   #2
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BT-016's
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Old 01-19-2010, 12:39 PM   #3
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BT-016's... is that the stock tire on the GSXR's now?

Are you saying that most any better sportbike tire should work fine in my siltation? I can see where that makes sense since that's what folks put on the bikes anyway.
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:06 PM   #4
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My first 2 years with about 3-4 trackdays a year I was using the Dunlop qualifier and had no problems with them. These should be close to the BT-016. If you are just starting I would suggest something along the lines of the Qualifier, BT-016, Pilot power, or any of the equivalent. You will find that the tires have a different profile and will handle differently, so the choice is yours. Personally I don't think you should waste your time with the 2ct if you choose the Michelins. Another option is find some good take offs from a local racer and try a bunch of different tires till you find something you like, just remember you should use tire warmers on race series to keep the heat cycles low.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:12 PM   #5
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Diablo Corsa III or Pilot Power 2ct. Im sure the new Bridgestone trackday tires are great as well but I don't have experience with them so I can't say.
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Old 01-21-2010, 05:11 PM   #6
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Thumbs up 2CTs are awesome

Try the new power pures by michelin. They are the replacement for the PP2cts. I have used the 2cts in the novice and intermediate level without a problem. Many tire vendors are running crazy sales on the PP & PP2cts. Checkout SPORTBIKETRACKGEAR.COM (site sponsor) they have some very nice specials going. I have stepped it up to the power one/power race combo recommended by STG for the intermediate level. You don't need a race tire yet!!!
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Old 01-22-2010, 03:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noodle View Post
I recently bought a fully-equipped GSXR 1000 track bike. It's an '02 and was used for club-level racing. The bike is in good shape and needs a few things like chain and sprockets.

I'm an experienced rider and am developing my skills on the track. I will need to put on a new set of tires in the next 3 or 4 track days and am looking for suggestions on what to use. The bike has Michelin Pilot Race tires on it, and the PO raced it in CCS and WERA events.

Since I'm learning and much slower than the previous owner, I am thinking I may not need race tires. Can someone share some perspectives on this and make some recommendations?

thanks,
Noodle
Noodle I'm thinking this way, you say you're not as quick as the previous rider yeah? that doesn't matter, my experience is that you'll be going as quick as you can right? so buy the best that you can afford. If you turn up at a track and your rubber is second best then you can only hope and expect to be second best too, you'll feel like you've let yourself down. Buy the best tyre's you can afford mate. If you buy cheap tyre's and crash trying to go quick on them It'll cost you more in the long run. If you're going on the track at all then give it your best shot mate, and good luck you might be quicker than you expect to be

PS I've done it all before - crashed - won production races- gone racing on a shoe string - spent money to be competetive -you need money - even at club level some riders use new tyre's every round - speed costs money - simple as that.
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:26 PM   #8
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Noodle I'm thinking this way, you say you're not as quick as the previous rider yeah? that doesn't matter, my experience is that you'll be going as quick as you can right? so buy the best that you can afford. If you turn up at a track and your rubber is second best then you can only hope and expect to be second best too, you'll feel like you've let yourself down. Buy the best tyre's you can afford mate. If you buy cheap tyre's and crash trying to go quick on them It'll cost you more in the long run. If you're going on the track at all then give it your best shot mate, and good luck you might be quicker than you expect to be

PS I've done it all before - crashed - won production races- gone racing on a shoe string - spent money to be competetive -you need money - even at club level some riders use new tyre's every round - speed costs money - simple as that.
+1 well said
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Old 01-22-2010, 05:51 PM   #9
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simple if you are the track USE TRACK TIRES!!!
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Old 01-24-2010, 07:13 PM   #10
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By the sounds of it the OP is new to the track, but has a dedicated bike. Why buy race tires that he can't keep heat in? What group are you running in at the track? I think you da man had it right. Try some DC III's or 2CT's. You don't HAVE to run race tires at the race track.
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:42 PM   #11
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By the sounds of it the OP is new to the track, but has a dedicated bike. Why buy race tires that he can't keep heat in? What group are you running in at the track? I think you da man had it right. Try some DC III's or 2CT's. You don't HAVE to run race tires at the race track.
no you dont. but there is 1 over-riding factor about tires. They are the absolute MOST important thing in riding a bike. Without good tires nothing else matters.

So why spend the same money on a street/track tire when it is a dedicated track bike.

And you are inccorect about keeping "heat" in a race tire. You can adjust tire pressures to add or subtract "heat"
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Old 01-24-2010, 09:52 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by norcalsportrider View Post
no you dont. but there is 1 over-riding factor about tires. They are the absolute MOST important thing in riding a bike. Without good tires nothing else matters.

So why spend the same money on a street/track tire when it is a dedicated track bike.

And you are inccorect about keeping "heat" in a race tire. You can adjust tire pressures to add or subtract "heat"
how ever it would be a wast of $$$$(IMO) for him to run race slicks when a good set of todays street/track tires work well threw upper mid pack of intermediate/b group. Especially if the rider is a new or less experienced rider. Also the heat that your refuring to by messing with your pressure is minimum at best and not god for the tire if out of range of what the tire manufacture calls for.
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Old 01-24-2010, 11:20 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by flyin low View Post
how ever it would be a wast of $$$$(IMO) for him to run race slicks when a good set of todays street/track tires work well threw upper mid pack of intermediate/b group. Especially if the rider is a new or less experienced rider. Also the heat that your refuring to by messing with your pressure is minimum at best and not god for the tire if out of range of what the tire manufacture calls for.
well I totally disagree. DOT race rubber (I have never run slicks) are more confident inspiring better control and you do not need to be a B+ rider to run them. Gone are the days old old where you needed to ride the snot out of a race tire to make them work.

as we all know it is not the speed in which you carry that gives the heat it is the carcass deforming that generates most of the heat. I have yet to meet someone on the track that does at least go fast enough to generate heat. And then there is the fact that a lot of crashes on street rubber is caused by overheating by mid pack trackday riders thinking they are not fast enough or read on the internet if you are not "X" fast you dont need race rubber

the extra 50 to 100 dollars is well worth saving thousands in repairs and or medical expenses.

Morale of the story buy the best tires you can afford.
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Old 01-27-2010, 04:02 AM   #14
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Lots of good advice and thanks!

Sounds like I need to take a second look at all the options. I've got a couple of track days left in the existing tires and will try out what I've got for the time being. I did buy tire warmers and I have been generating heat on the Pilot Race's now when riding.

I expect to go much faster than on my previous ride and I will see how things go. It's better to buy what works well than buy the wrong tire for my riding.
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Old 01-27-2010, 12:51 PM   #15
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Just to throw something else into this, I'm thinking it's suspension settings that give us the most control over grip ie. if your suspension isn't working as it should/could then the bike's going to give any tyre a hard time trying to give good grip regardless of compound, price, type of tyre, etc. Also I don't know if Noodle's got two sets of wheels (I'm asuming you haven't noodle?) cos if not then slicks are out of the picture anyway unless noodle is a total hero on a bike in wet conditions and can ride slicks in the wet, (cos I'm thinking it's sometimes wet and you'll need a road tyre to cope with all coditions).

Also if you start to look at the working temperature of tyres and try to control that with tyre pressures I think you'll probably fall off before you hit the front of the grid due to running too much or too little air resulting in extreme tyre deformation. From my experience a couple of PSI lower in wet conditions and maybe a PSI lower in hot conditions in the dry (as air pressure will rise with heat anyway) but it's splitting hairs on temperature difference and you probably won't notice the difference in levels of grip anyway. I would stick to a couple of PSI either side of the tyre manufacturers recommended pressures and as previously stated run the best rubber you can afford.
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Old 01-27-2010, 02:18 PM   #16
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Richie, good points. I am fortunate indeed that the bike is a dedicated track bike. While our track days are "rain or shine" I have not yet ridden in the rain at a track.

I ride a ZZR1200 on the street and it's shod with rubber good for all weather, and I ride it in all kinds of slop and rain. It rains a lot in Florida.

The bike was professionally setup for the PO, who weight about 10 pounds less than I do but is the same height. However the forks have a .95 fork spring and I need to bump that up to a 1.0 or 1.1.

Thanks for responding!

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Old 01-27-2010, 02:38 PM   #17
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[QUOTE=noodle;823360]
"I ride a ZZR1200 on the street and it's shod with rubber good for all weather, and I ride it in all kinds of slop and rain. It rains a lot in Florida".

Mate I reckon you're sorted iff you've been riding a ZZR12 on the road in all weather that'll probably be harder than riding a gixer thou and keeping it upright on the track anyhow! so much grunt and weight with that big Kawa 12 man. Let us know how things work out trackin it, be good
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Old 01-27-2010, 03:47 PM   #18
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if your new to the track and don't have an unlimited budget you'd have to be crazy not to go with pp 2ct's there is some seriously good sales going on michelin's right now. you can gets sets delivered cheaper then i could find rears alone a couple years ago.

I always say go with what you can get the cheapest, and stick with that tire for a while. its not good to switch tires all the time because they do act differently. But at the same time not one of the big 4 companies with they equivalent tire lines is going to greatly excel over each other

Last edited by PAjixxer; 01-27-2010 at 03:49 PM.
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Old 01-29-2010, 02:47 PM   #19
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All are rider preference. Conduct research and find the one that fits your style.
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Old 02-22-2010, 11:57 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by gixxerlvr View Post
All are rider preference. Conduct research and find the one that fits your style.
+1 I love dunlops, others love stones, you are working with the michelins... figure out what you like and performs well for you and are worth the $$$. Tire press and geometry are important when switching around brands as well as suspension settings.
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:08 PM   #21
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my 2 cents! HAHAHA, right now i am running Power race med compoud! amazing feel and grip, my buddy ran these for the past 2 seasons and he runs mid-front of the pack in advanced group, last track day he just went to the dunlop N-tec slicks, and said they are amazing! this is my first track season and before on the street i was running BT-016 and in the canyons performed very well for my level of riding. and when it comes to sportbike riding it is like an algebra equation all the variables need to be right for the equation to be correct, so it a combo or tires you like and suspension, on my first track day i rode w/o suspension set up for me, then the following day i had it set up and WOW what a difference! dropped 3 seconds off my lap times, and i felt WAY more comfy at full lean!
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Old 03-11-2010, 11:33 PM   #22
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did I hear someone say ZZR1200

running pirelli Supercorsas
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Old 03-13-2010, 10:17 PM   #23
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Been riding for 10 years, streets and canyons...on my fifth trackday, can't say enough about the bridgestone bt003 racing street tires!! Awesome tires!! Used to running dunlops qualifiers, can't go wrong with the bt003s!! Warm up is very quick 1-2 laps, no warmers necessary!! Trust me... try em!!
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Old 03-14-2010, 03:25 AM   #24
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All are rider preference. Conduct research and find the one that fits your style.
+1 Well said. Then go buy yourself a set of Pirelli Diablo Supercorsa's or Dragon Supercorsa.
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Old 03-27-2010, 03:21 PM   #25
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Well... I've decided that I am going with street tires and there are some awesome sales. I'm facing a lot of choices. Here's what I've narrowed it down to:

Michelin Pilot Power's
Michelin Pilot Power 2CT
Michelin Pilot Power Pure (80 bucks higher than Pilot Power)
Bridgestone Battleax BT003
Pirelli Diablo Rosso
Shinko 003 Stealth

Question: Is there a lot of difference between these? I would have to try them all to find out... and would probably favor Michelin's since I have a Michelin product on now and they are working well at this state of my experience.

All these are within +/- $30 of each other.

Also, what size for the front (120/70) and rear (180/55, 190/50 or 190/55)?
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Old 03-28-2010, 04:59 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by norcalsportrider View Post
simple if you are the track USE TRACK TIRES!!!
Like he said.

No matter how slow you think you are, you will quickly reach the limits of a street tire on the track. PERIOD!
If you're going to the track, take DOT race tires.

For the extra $100-150, you get peace of mind and confidence.
Track riding/racing is all about having maximum confidence in your equipment.

Crashing and doing thousands of dollars in damage to your bike, not to mention bodily harm to yourself, because you 'skimped' on tires, just isn't worth it. The consequences far out weigh the costs involved.

Just my $.02. Good luck.
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Old 03-28-2010, 09:48 AM   #27
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Dont think you would want to be running the shinko. Stick with one of the big four. Dunlop, Bridgestone, Michelin, or Pirelli.
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Old 03-28-2010, 11:04 AM   #28
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What are some DOT race tires to choose from?

Shinko
Battleax BT003
Michelin Power One 2CT
Michelin Pilot Power Pure

Help me out here with some suggestions because I am having a hard time telling them apart!
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:04 PM   #29
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The 2ct are not DOT race tires. DOT tires would be the dunlop 209, Michelin Power Ones, Michelin Power Race, or Bridgestone 003. Also remember you really should be using tire warmers with DOT race tires or you are wasting your money. I have not had a chance to try the bridgestones so I could not really say, but I have heard that they are somewhere between the dunlops and Michelins in handling. Personally I did not care for the PRs that I tried last year, it seemed like it took more effort on the turn in and transitions when compared to dunlops, but everyone is different. Also you will find the tire guys at the track will become your best friends!
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:15 PM   #30
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Another option is to buy a couple different sets of take offs from some local racers and try the tires out at a track day. This would be more cost effective.
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Old 03-28-2010, 01:54 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by noodle View Post
What are some DOT race tires to choose from?

Shinko
Battleax BT003
Michelin Power One 2CT
Michelin Pilot Power Pure

Help me out here with some suggestions because I am having a hard time telling them apart!
Eliminate STINKOS from your list, better yet, from your vocabulary.

Racers' takeoffs are a very good option for you, since you're a new track guy. You can find takeoffs with very few laps and time on them for $150 shipped all day long.
Go to the WERA forum and look around.

Just like K81000 said, DOT race tires would be:

Dunlop GPA's, NTEC 211's
Bridgestone BT003
Michelin Power One
Pirelli Diablo Supercorsas
Continental Attacks (getting great reviews by some top, winning expert racers. We used them at DAYTONA a month ago.)

You cannot go wrong with any of these tires at your level.

Last edited by gapman789; 03-28-2010 at 01:58 PM.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:09 AM   #32
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As far as race rubber goes. Im pretty certain they are designed for fewer heat cycles than hybrid tires. If you get race rubber, get tire warmers too...otherwise the cold tear on your tires will suck as well as them not getting the heat in the carcass that they like to have to perform well.

you will not outride BT016, BT003, DC3s...for sure. I can only speak of the tires Ive had experience with. Even metzler m3s are decent, but more of a street tire. Dragging knee and avg lap times can be achieved on these tires.
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Old 04-03-2010, 02:01 PM   #33
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Try the new power pures by michelin. They are the replacement for the PP2cts. I have used the 2cts in the novice and intermediate level without a problem. Many tire vendors are running crazy sales on the PP & PP2cts. Checkout SPORTBIKETRACKGEAR.COM (site sponsor) they have some very nice specials going. I have stepped it up to the power one/power race combo recommended by STG for the intermediate level. You don't need a race tire yet!!!
Kudos to JFM and also to Norcalsportrider!

I finally went to sportbiketrackgear.com and looked at the combo you mentioned. Since I had Pilot Race on both front and rear, I looked for that but they were not available in the front. I went with a combo just like you mentioned and got the pair for $269, which IMHO is a heck of a deal. It's a few bucks more than 2 street tires but they will work better for my track experience. All argument/discussion aside, I will have more confidence in these tires. The arrived yesterday and they are beautiful.

Thanks to all and Happy Easter!

Track day next Sunday at Jennings!!!
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Old 04-12-2010, 06:14 PM   #34
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did you do the track day sat i was there just saw the thread though
howd you do
1.33.3 for my best time on sun
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Old 04-13-2010, 07:07 AM   #35
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I ran on Sunday in the novice group, with 29 other people. Traffic was tough though there was a fast pack that I tried to ride with. I had some good times for that time but did not have a lap timer. A friend loaned me one for the last 25-minute session but by then I was working on different lines and not setting great times, around 1:50.


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Old 04-13-2010, 09:22 PM   #36
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i didnt run a timer till late sun either i had a faster time sat then scared myself. the 2cts should work great for awhile i ran the pirrelli corsa 3 untill sat then tried a slick on sun. i just started giving the tire too much throttle at lean.
this is a pic of my wife behind you when i saw your pic i knew id seen the bike
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