Gsxr 1000 K5 Frame Defect

[joerocket82]

Just read this: Take it for what you will.

http://www.1tail.com/sa/news/s/default.htm?g={22F6D1DF-72CF-4A36-B9F1-1E87EFDF1809}

[joerocket82]

This may not be "Hot Breaking News", and I did not search to see if there was a thread about this already. Just wanted to help inform everyone.

[KmansK5]

Yeah this has been discussed everywhere else not sure about on here though. The article I had seen showed pics of the bike hitting a wall at like 120 head on. I'm no professional welder or racer for that matter but doesn't it seem weird that a frame would just let go on a corner? I know the torque of the bike makes them flex but this seems kinda odd in my opinoin. But again I don't know shit about shit so don't listen to me.

[joerocket82]

Lol.. thats what i'm saying. I don't know shit about shit sometimes too. lol. Just getting it out there for those who might wanna know.

[Stunt101]

they're nice lookin weilds until you look under them, it doesn't look like it penetrated at all. That's like building a house with thumbtacks

[pmhallum]

I'm NO expert, but I'd think that if the AMA riders are using the same frames we were with there 200+ hp bikes and you've not seen any real problems it may have just been a fluke.. though a damned shitty one.

[gsxrace01]

these light weight bikes weren't built to do stopies,,i wouldn't be suprized to see a cracked frame from that...and the reason why i will never buy a used bike.......

[joerocket82]

Originally Posted by pmhallum

I'm NO expert, but I'd think that if the AMA riders are using the same frames we were with there 200+ hp bikes and you've not seen any real problems it may have just been a fluke.. though a damned shitty one.

I agree...

[jimmy 2 times]

Originally Posted by pmhallum

I'm NO expert, but I'd think that if the AMA riders are using the same frames we were with there 200+ hp bikes and you've not seen any real problems it may have just been a fluke.. though a damned shitty one.

exactly
how many has mladin broken, and he beats the piss out of that bike..........he just doesnt put them into a wall at 100+mph

[Engloid]

I'm a certified welder, having held probably 50 different certifications. I'm also an American Welding Society Certified Welding Inspector....

And I'd reject that shit in a heartbeat!!!

I can't say that it caused an accident, or what caused enough stress to break it, but that weld is unacceptable. Heck, I can't even speak as to what bike this weld was on, so take my post for only what it's worth....welding inspection information.

Most likely, full penetration wasn't even something they wanted to achieve...but they really needed to get more than that. The lack of penetration is such that it definitely poses a question of whether lack of fusion is an issue. An xray of this weld would be interesting, but there's some things that I can tell already that would show up in an xray. See all the little round holes? This is called porosity. They're kinda like air bubbles in the weld.

Typically, in an environment like what these frames are welded in, the welding procedure is developed and tested prior to beginning production.
Here's how it usually works: One piece of metal is welded up, with all variables such as wiretype, amperage, voltage, travel speed, etc is recorded. The weld is then subjected to tests like tensile pulls, bending and/or by chemically etching a cross-section of the weld. After it passes the required tests, the procedure is then qualified. The welding engineer (or other person assigned the duties) will write up a welding procedure specification (WPS). The WPS will often allow the operator of the welding equipment to make deviations to the specific settings that were done to qualify the procedure. For example, a person may need to turn up the wirespeed or travel speed, and is allowed to within the limits specified on the welding procedure specification. It is sometimes possible for the operator to deviate the variables such that a poor weld will result.... which may be what happened here.

That said, it is also possible that one operator could have changes settings on the machine to their preference, and another shift did the same. I don't know that there'd be any way to even know which bikes had problems like this and which didn't....without an xray of each one.

If this article is truly factual, and deemed to not be an isolated incident, Suzuki may need to have bikes xrayed in these spots...then either do repairs or replacements for those that do not pass the xray testing.

I've read rumors of this problem, but this is the first time I have seen actual photos and heard of it happening at a time other than an accident.

[Turtle]

I was @ this race which was a MRA race weekend @ PPIR in Fountain,Co. The date was May 14th & 15th.
I saw the bike after the crash. The bike did hit the wall comming off the front straight down the banking. If you ever have seen the AMA racers on tv/Speed channel you can see this turn (T1) is a fast drop & if not taken properly will send you into the wall.
I think the impact of hitting the wall broke the frame along with the front wheel & forks. Just my two cents.

[REVLIMIT]

Yup while I don't think the weld was the greatest weld...I don't think that caused the crash. But I think all bikes now days the frames are getting weaker. They're getting lighter...but they're getting weaker. Plus even if the frame didn't snap in that crash I'd expect it to at least be extremely damaged. To the point where you'd need to replace the frame anyways.

[Limboavionic]

I can't view the link from work...but this thread is kinda freakin' me out. I'm going stRaight home to inspect this myself. It anything looks familiar..it's going right back to the dealership. YIKES!!!!!

[Engloid]

It's doubtful that you could look at your frame and see the defect that this frame had...since it's INTERNAL porosity. It would only show in an xray or destructive testing.

If any of you are concerned about your frames, you can probably find a local place that will xray yours. With this being a fairly common concern, maybe the dealer or Suzuki would spring for the cost...especially if you tell them that you will post the results in public. If they don't want to pay, I'd PROMISE them that I'd post the results, and ask them if they were scared.

That said, if I did have my frame xrayed, and it has excessive porosity, I'd definitely do what it took to have them replace it.

Of course, a crash can be the cause of this, and the frame may have never broken if the crash hadn't happened...BUT... It's also possible that the frame breaks in a crash and your leg gets impaled on it, rather than having a frame that will bend because the weld's strong enough to hold up. Consider roll cages in cars. There's restrictions in many racing associations on what parts of it can be welded and what parts must be bent. This is partially because they dont want crappy welds to break and allow the pipe to impale the car occupants.

Typically, when a weld is tested with a tensile pull (pulled apart till it breaks), the sample is rejected if it breaks IN the weld. It should break next to the weld since the weld should be the strongest part of the piece. Obviously, that wasn't the case with this frame.

In short...even with the crash, the frame should have bent, not broken. There's no excuse for having a weld like what is posted above.

[Snakes600]

I can't believe this is being discussed again. Doesn't everyone know by now that if you ride the new gixxer in the rain the frame will oxidize at the welds. Every service I have the dealer spread a special penetrating solvent on the welds to clean the oxidation and seal the welds for another 3000 miles.

[GIXXERNEWFIE]

I crashed my 05 1000 at 15mil/h. Hit the back of a van that jumped on his brakes. My frame cracked like a twig in five places, including at both welds. I've seen all the shit going around about the welds being bad, but put it off as just talk, until I took one look at my bike. An accident as minor as mine should not have yielded that much damage. I am getting the frame inspected. I'd post pics if I knew how. Sorry

[charkly]

The time comes when losing weight sacrifices structural integrity-Im willing to be most manufacturers are getting there-Time to slow up-lol

[Limboavionic]

Originally Posted by Snakes600

I can't believe this is being discussed again. Doesn't everyone know by now that if you ride the new gixxer in the rain the frame will oxidize at the welds. Every service I have the dealer spread a special penetrating solvent on the welds to clean the oxidation and seal the welds for another 3000 miles.

What's the name of that solvent?? The rain season is coming. Also....any of you guys who have had k5 frame trouble, would rain have been a factor?

[g5xr1]

I wonder if there is a VIN range, in which these frames have defects. "when" mine cracks ill be sure to post pix, along with the date of manufacture.


damn i hope it doesnt!

[JIMLARCH]

Originally Posted by Engloid

It's doubtful that you could look at your frame and see the defect that this frame had...since it's INTERNAL porosity. It would only show in an xray or destructive testing.

If any of you are concerned about your frames, you can probably find a local place that will xray yours. With this being a fairly common concern, maybe the dealer or Suzuki would spring for the cost...especially if you tell them that you will post the results in public. If they don't want to pay, I'd PROMISE them that I'd post the results, and ask them if they were scared.

That said, if I did have my frame xrayed, and it has excessive porosity, I'd definitely do what it took to have them replace it.

Of course, a crash can be the cause of this, and the frame may have never broken if the crash hadn't happened...BUT... It's also possible that the frame breaks in a crash and your leg gets impaled on it, rather than having a frame that will bend because the weld's strong enough to hold up. Consider roll cages in cars. There's restrictions in many racing associations on what parts of it can be welded and what parts must be bent. This is partially because they dont want crappy welds to break and allow the pipe to impale the car occupants.

Typically, when a weld is tested with a tensile pull (pulled apart till it breaks), the sample is rejected if it breaks IN the weld. It should break next to the weld since the weld should be the strongest part of the piece. Obviously, that wasn't the case with this frame.

In short...even with the crash, the frame should have bent, not broken. There's no excuse for having a weld like what is posted above.

You've said take the bike to a local place for an x-ray. I didn't know there were x-ray machines out there that could x-ray frames. Where exactly should I go to get my frame x-rayed.

[Engloid]

Originally Posted by Snakes600

I can't believe this is being discussed again. Doesn't everyone know by now that if you ride the new gixxer in the rain the frame will oxidize at the welds. Every service I have the dealer spread a special penetrating solvent on the welds to clean the oxidation and seal the welds for another 3000 miles.

Somebody's been blowing hot air up your ass and you're liking it.
This is what they're doing when you leave--->

Originally Posted by JIMLARCH

You've said take the bike to a local place for an x-ray. I didn't know there were x-ray machines out there that could x-ray frames. Where exactly should I go to get my frame x-rayed.

You can xray damn near anything. I'm currently working for a company that's building xray cabinets for another company that puts the electronics in it and sells them to the food service industry. A lot of the food we buy now is checked this way for any foriegn objects. No worry though...it is such a low amount of radiation used that you're safe.

Check around your town for places that do welding inspection work. If you can't find them directly, check with some metal working, welding, and fabrication places. They may be able to point you to the companies that do the xray work.

[JIMLARCH]

Originally Posted by Engloid

Somebody's been blowing hot air up your ass and you're liking it.
This is what they're doing when you leave--->



You can xray damn near anything. I'm currently working for a company that's building xray cabinets for another company that puts the electronics in it and sells them to the food service industry. A lot of the food we buy now is checked this way for any foriegn objects. No worry though...it is such a low amount of radiation used that you're safe.

Check around your town for places that do welding inspection work. If you can't find them directly, check with some metal working, welding, and fabrication places. They may be able to point you to the companies that do the xray work.

Thanks for the info.

[Got2josh]

while everyone is on the topic of frame integrity be warned that polishing the frame, while it looks good, takes material from the frame, weakening it. I have an 00 750 with the frame polished and just recently cracked it in two spots from wailing down slow standups. It cracked on the inside of the bend by the front of the gastank, there's a weld on the inside and the weld cracked down the middle. I got it rewelded by my uncle who makes chopper frames and he said they had very little penetration. But even though the weld might not have been the best polishing the frame takes enough metal off that it can make it easier for the frame to flex more, possibly cracking.

[Ackley450]

I have heard alot about the welds on the frames but i know that the weld on my friends 06 1000's swing arm came right off from the front of the swing arm it didnt hold at all. that is on the right side by the exhaust.

[Snakes600]

Originally Posted by Ackley450

I have heard alot about the welds on the frames but i know that the weld on my friends 06 1000's swing arm came right off from the front of the swing arm it didnt hold at all. that is on the right side by the exhaust.

We will need some proof of that...

[hassan-darazi]

this is stupid guys
I do indo's, stoppies, wheelies & all kind of stunts on my gixxer & I do high speeding cornering on high speeds & nothing accures dont know what happened with this specific bike but I think there is no problem unless they got this machine into a serios accident

[suzukik3]

I say, dodge wall at 120mph...

[corybride]

Originally Posted by Snakes600

We will need some proof of that...

My bike had the swingarm break! Here are the pics!

[slack0Yd]

It was just sitting in the old hanger and did that??

[corybride]

No, I was going around a corner at about 40mph and highsided. The bike then landed upsidedown and came to rest on the tank and rear seat leaning against a tree. The swingarm never came into contact with anything other then the road when I initally highsided. (no bouncing or anything of that nature) This was all witnessed by my G/F who was following me. Therefore, I would say the swingarm broke when the tire finally gripped the road and then highsided. The broken weld clearly shows the lack of penetration.

I am not posting to argue or anything like that. I am just showing others what to expect from the welds on their bikes. This is currently being investigated by American Suzuki and I will keep anyone who is interested updated whenever I received more info from Suzuki.

[DDJFLW]

"The broken weld clearly shows the lack of penetration."


How about posting a better picture. Like a close up view of this statement you just made. Its like saying you have a big dick but took a picture of the back of your hairy ass. Your trying to make a point and providing no evidence. Take your camera, take a close shot of the weld so we can see how deep it penetrated. You dont have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out.

[06 GSXR K6]

Originally Posted by DDJFLW

"The broken weld clearly shows the lack of penetration."


How about posting a better picture. Like a close up view of this statement you just made. Its like saying you have a big dick but took a picture of the back of your hairy ass. Your trying to make a point and providing no evidence. Take your camera, take a close shot of the weld so we can see how deep it penetrated. You dont have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out.

++++++++1

[Heavy Duty]

Dear GSXR Lovers,

I am a GSXR owner since 1996 , and I am not trying to convince any one here or to argue with any one else, I am just posting my personal experience with the new 1000 GSXR, so that some people can know more opinions about it before deciding what bike to buy.

I started with the 1100 cc, and until now I never owned a bike other than GSXR I bought brand new GSXR1000 K3 and than the K4 and I fought here in my country to get the K5 and I couldn’t, because it was very rare, but I bought the K6 1000, a red one, but an accident occurred in front of me & my friends that led me to sell my K6 and I bought a used K4 again.

Before I got my K6, I heard many roamers about its frame defects, and even I was here in this forum before I do the buying, but because I am a crazy about this bike, I didn't lessen to any one and I got it to my self. One day me and my biker friends were outside the city in a distinct area doing our wheelies and stunts, and some of my friends where practicing when a 2003 R6 Yamaha turned left suddenly while a GSXR1000 2006 was speeding around 50-60 MPH, and the K6 crashed into the R6 right side. The two drivers suffered only minor scratches and cuts, and went home in the same night, the R6 owner even went riding his bike, but the GSXR1000 K6, we toke it off the accident area in peaces, latterly, it toke us 8 person to load it over the truck while normally 3 is enough, and that was because the bike was in peaces held up together only by the hoses and cables of the breaks and clutch and weirs.

The bike front disappeared, remaining the front forks attached to the front broken wheel, and to the rest of the bike by cables, no tree plate no steering no speedometer no nothing.
The main frame was broken below the fuel tank, not in the welding line but near to it, causing the fuel tank to be loosening from other parts but still hanging in the bike by the hoses and wires.

The tail and tail frame were also hanging to the remaining of the bike with wires and cables only, and you don't want to know what happened to the body fairing and radiator.

When I saw this accident, I directly sold my K6 and tried to get a brand new K4 but I couldn't unfortunately, s o I bought a used one.

My point is this: I don’t think that the GSXR frame will brake without a reason, but for a wheelie guy, I won't risk my self to a total loss of my bike in case of small accident that most probably I will have while stunting, so I will grave until Suzuki comes back with a GSXR that I will again trust to use, and I wish this will happen in K7.

I can provide the frame # of my GSXR's if Suzuki company want to check that I am really a GSXR guy, and photos of them, and I advise any one to buy only GSXR but 2004 or 2003, not any other brand bike, not another GSXR model, but it is the best bike ever built. Unfortunately no one on that day toke photos tot that poor bike, and later the owner refused to let us get photo of it, but I can direct any one to my group of friends to get their statements, and we do have a riding group and our Owen forum.

[GIXXERNEWFIE]

[QUOTE=This is currently being investigated by American Suzuki and I will keep anyone who is interested updated whenever I received more info from Suzuki.[/QUOTE]

You can keep an update here. They're not gona do shit though. Check out what happened to mine. I say forget it. Re-build, try harder not to crash, or get a Harley

[GIXXERNEWFIE]

Originally Posted by DDJFLW

"The broken weld clearly shows the lack of penetration."


How about posting a better picture. Like a close up view of this statement you just made. Its like saying you have a big dick but took a picture of the back of your hairy ass. Your trying to make a point and providing no evidence. Take your camera, take a close shot of the weld so we can see how deep it penetrated. You dont have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out.

LMFAO

[corybride]

Originally Posted by DDJFLW

"The broken weld clearly shows the lack of penetration."


How about posting a better picture. Like a close up view of this statement you just made. Its like saying you have a big dick but took a picture of the back of your hairy ass. Your trying to make a point and providing no evidence. Take your camera, take a close shot of the weld so we can see how deep it penetrated. You dont have to be a brain surgeon to figure this out.

I see no reason for you to be a prick about this. When I get to my computer with pictures I will post them. Don't worry I have many, many pictures. I am not on here to prove anything to you guys, as you can see I am not the only person having these problems.

[DDJFLW]

See since this thread started GIXXERNEWFIE was the first to post a GOOD picture of the frame damage. Thanks for the pics!!!

[Engloid]

These most recent pics look to me like the weld itself didn't break, and the break was next to the weld. This is called the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ). This is where a weld SHOULD be weakest.

When qualifying a welding procedure according to many welding codes, they do a tensile pull test...where the weld is pulled apart in opposing directions. A successful test will break next to the weld, rather than in the weld.

Further...penetration isn't always all that important. Ever wonder why they put the big protruding welds on the bike frames? It's because they know they're not getting good penetration and they put extra metal on there for reinforcement. If their goal was to get full penetration, they'd have a lot of frames kicked off the assembly line because they'd be blowing holes in them. In other words, by gaining strength through external reinforcement, they avoid the risks of melting through the frame.

[GIXXERNEWFIE]

Originally Posted by Engloid

These most recent pics look to me like the weld itself didn't break, and the break was next to the weld. This is called the Heat Affected Zone (HAZ). This is where a weld SHOULD be weakest.

When qualifying a welding procedure according to many welding codes, they do a tensile pull test...where the weld is pulled apart in opposing directions. A successful test will break next to the weld, rather than in the weld.

Further...penetration isn't always all that important. Ever wonder why they put the big protruding welds on the bike frames? It's because they know they're not getting good penetration and they put extra metal on there for reinforcement. If their goal was to get full penetration, they'd have a lot of frames kicked off the assembly line because they'd be blowing holes in them. In other words, by gaining strength through external reinforcement, they avoid the risks of melting through the frame.

Actually the breaks go directly through the middle of the welds on both sides. Along with other locations on the frame. The pics dont really capture the breaks that well, but looking at them in person you can see the welds, and their penetration(or lack of). I'm no welder, but I've had many professionals, including engineers who job it is to inspect welds, say that they would seek an investigation. Suzuki wont even entertain the thought, when the bike was involved in an accident. I still have the old frame. I'll see If I can get some solid pics that show the welds.

[Engloid]

Originally Posted by GIXXERNEWFIE

Actually the breaks go directly through the middle of the welds on both sides. Along with other locations on the frame. The pics dont really capture the breaks that well, but looking at them in person you can see the welds, and their penetration(or lack of). I'm no welder, but I've had many professionals, including engineers who job it is to inspect welds, say that they would seek an investigation. Suzuki wont even entertain the thought, when the bike was involved in an accident. I still have the old frame. I'll see If I can get some solid pics that show the welds.

Most engineers know very little about welding. Even those that inspect welds. Now, if they're a Welding Engineer, it is likely completely different. What I mean is that the average ASME code certified welder will know more about welding than most engineers. Heck, most of them don't even know how to put welding symbols on a drawing!!

Anyway, if the weld broke during normal service, in middle of the weld, I would definitely call it a major problem. If it broke in the event of an accident, it's not nearly as big an issue...cause it held up to normal usage. In other words, the design is made to hold up to normal usage not a nuclear explosion. That's probably why Suzuki doesn't want to mess with it. They make bikes to hold up to normal wear and tear, and maybe minimal abuse (wheelies, etc)...not to hold up well in an accident. It's not like a car, where it is designed to protect the passengers in the event of an accident.

That said, if I were Suzuki, I'd still want to work on my welding procedures a bit so that the weld would be stronger than the metal it holds together.

And yes, I'm a welder...19 years of welding, 17 at journeyman level, and am also an American Welding Society Certified Welding Inspector...and I am not concerned about my safety after reading this post.

I'd still like to see more pics though.