Installing Manual CCT- K5 GSX-R1000- ?'s/concerns - GSXR.com
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post #1 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 02:14 PM Thread Starter
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Installing Manual CCT- K5 GSX-R1000- ?'s/concerns

Hey all,
My GSXR has just over 20K miles on it, and it sounds as though the cam chain is clacking even more these days. It still runs well, and oil changes show now signs of metal shavings, etc.
At idle, I feel it almost sounds like a quiet diesel. It kinda clatters some at cruising speed 3-5K R's also.

I've searched this Forum, as well as others in months past.
I've watched YouTubes, read many posts, and have had advice from many worthy posters on other forums.

I bought a knock off of the MCCT, that looks identical to the AIM (?) one. Other than fitting, there are no moving parts, etc.
It has the little plug for the oil port, that is no longer used and I guess it helps keep the gasket from leaking in the area. As you know the stock ones are oil pressure driven.
It comes with the gasket, etc.

** I have rebuilt M/C and car/truck engines in the past, from crank and up.
My concerns are somehow even with my educated installation technique, it might still jump timing, and then you know what happens!

** My plans are to
- take out the spark plugs (bike is already with air box off, etc.)
- take off the right side inspection port
- Put it at TDC (not sure how this matter really since there is always some tension on the valves in a inline4)
I will not move the crank position once the OEM CCT is out.
- take out OEM CCT,
- install oil galley plug, install MCCT w/ gasket and
- turn MCCT screw in until I can feel tension, back out slightly.
- ** Turn over motor by hand now, to ensure it freely goes thru a few cycles on each cylinder- so to ensure
there had been no timing movement, as in valve into piston. I feel if it happens while I'm turning it real slowly, it shouldn't bend a stem, etc.
- install plugs and air box
- start motor: adjust the tensioner bolt for just when the Cam chain noise stops.

Have a beer when it's successfully complete


I just need a 'cmon Todd, you can do this!!
Or a -

What about this, or that?

School me

TIA
-

K5 1000 - ECU Flash; Manual CCT, K&N, Yoshi Muffler, Ti Midpipe; Q3+ 190/55 rear; 520 chain -1/+1; GP Shifting

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post #2 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 02:28 PM
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I don't have any experience with the manual CCTs but I can understand the possible need on a race engine that is maintained every 5 or 10 hours.

The little ratchet teeth on the OEM automatic adjusters get worn and they slip, but it is not a common problem.

Personally, for $100 I would just buy a new OEM CCT and install it.

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Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
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post #3 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 05:19 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks John, and that is good advice.

But I already have 2 MCCT new- as I thought I was also going to put one in #1, but I sold it.

This one is making more what seems like cam chain noise also.

Here's my plugs out:



People have had good results, I'm going to go for it tomorrow, and get new plugs- just because.

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post #4 of 14 (permalink) Old 06-30-2019, 09:51 PM
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Your cam chain will make the most noise at idle and usually get quieter as it increases RPMs
I dont change out a tensioner unless the valve cover is off. If either cam is under valve spring pressure, the cam can spring back or forward when the old tensioner is removed causing it to jump timing.

Also dont overtighten the manual tensioner after installing it or it will increase chain wear and possible breakage.
Personally I would remove the cap from the back of the old tensioner and take out the spring in there before removing the old tensioner, that way when it's removed the plunger will not extend and will give you an approximate length on setting the new tensioner.

After the new one is installed, I'd back the adjuster out a couple turns. And since valve cover is off turn crank forward and back, you'll see and feel the slack on the chain before the camshafts begin to turn.
Slowly turn in adjuster and repeat until you have reached zero slack. This will keep you from over tightening cam chain. I would repeat this process about every 3-4 thousand miles.
Your automatic tensioning is now gone and must be done from time to time.

Often once the tensioner has been replaced you can perform this adjustment without cam cover removal done by feel of slack turning crank back and forth.

Hope this gives you some usable info on the matter.

Like John said if you dont want to have to mess with it, just install a new factory tensioner and roll on.

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Last edited by Racerxxxgsxr1000; 06-30-2019 at 09:55 PM.
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post #5 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 04:28 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks X,
I was going without removing the valve cover.
I think I'm gong to remove the throttle bodies maybe as it gives more room to get in there also though.

I was watching one You tube on it was actually for the K5 Liter, and he was saying to get a new one- OEM, or better yet, just change the spring in it!
I'm not sure how or where I could get just the spring though.

I plan to install it today, as most of the out stuff except the TB's are already off.
I planned on cranking the plunger by hand in 'till I felt it stop, back out a bit, then hand crank the engine with the plugs out. If it makes revolutions it'll be a good sign.
I'm not cranking anything until the new one is in and snugged up- so it won't/can't jump time.

When the mark is indicating TDC, does it matter which cylinder that is? I'm pretty sure the mark is on 1 or 4. and one of them is actually on TDC?
I could stck a rod in the plug holes to see which is up top?

Thanks for reading/helping me

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post #6 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 04:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerxxxgsxr1000 View Post
Often once the tensioner has been replaced you can perform this adjustment without cam cover removal done by feel of slack turning crank back and forth.
Again, I've never had a manual CCT, but have read about a method of adjusting the tensioner tighter till the noise goes away then backed off some amount.

How do you "feel slack in the crank"? Do you have to take a side cover off to access a crank bolt? Would't the starter sprague clutch make this a bit hard to "feel" in the reverse direction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
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post #7 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 09:24 AM Thread Starter
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I took the bolt/not off the end of the OEM and took the spring out first.
Then, when I removed the CCT, it looked fine too.
I put the spring back in it out of the engine and when I tried to get the nut back on, it went out at least 15mm more, meaning the chain isn't stretched that much, or, the OEM isn't working properly.
I'm hoping the slight dieseling like cam chain noise will go away after this!

Ok, so it's installed, and after making sure it had some tension on it, the motor turns over easily like before the swap.
Good Sign!

I did move the TB out up and over out of the way- and boy am I glad I did.
I had thought I could reach under, and probably could have, but this extra step made it much easier.

Still have to get the TB's back on, e'vrything hooked up, and fire it up.

Oh yea, when I was inspecting the new one, I found this? Remarketing the APE itself?


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post #8 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 12:14 PM Thread Starter
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Got it back together enough to start it.
Tank up, Rt side plastics off.

It's quieter! I let it warm up and revved it to 5 k a few times.
* it sounds a little crisper, as in Throttle response from idle, etc.- Could be 'cz I spent all this time and effort on it though

I tightened it and backed it off a 1/4 turn cold.

Ran it and did not adjust it further, yet.

Success!! Kinda scary knowing what a jumped timing will do!

I did this today while I was battling a vertigo, and changing head positions while working on this was challenging;
and the fact my 18 y/o w/ Autism is having a day long- intellectual melt down. He calms down a while, then it starts over again, and again.

Such is life.

I think I mentioned the only reason I did this, was it was starting to sound like a diesel, or a dry clutch.
I'm glad after all the research, videos, reading threads, etc. that I went for it!
New plugs in the process too! NGK CR9E from Auto Zone.

K5 1000 - ECU Flash; Manual CCT, K&N, Yoshi Muffler, Ti Midpipe; Q3+ 190/55 rear; 520 chain -1/+1; GP Shifting

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post #9 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 02:22 PM
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ive been meaning to do one on my l1 750.
waiting for the next ebay sale to pick up a APE one.
for a daily driver, no, i wouldnt bother.
but on a trackbike where you are coming off throttle at high rpms, it's a little extra insurance.
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post #10 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-01-2019, 04:31 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JCW View Post
ive been meaning to do one on my l1 750.
waiting for the next ebay sale to pick up a APE one.
for a daily driver, no, i wouldnt bother.
but on a trackbike where you are coming off throttle at high rpms, it's a little extra insurance.
Thanks

Oh btw, NO oil leak either!

Hey JCW, When I had 2 of these K5 liters, I had bought 2 of these MCCT.
They looked exactly like a billet APE. Funny how even the part has APE stamped on it!

Anyways, I still have a complete one, new in the package unopened.
If by chance it's the same part #- I can get it to you shipped for low, low $.
If interested and it'll fit, LMK,PM me.
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post #11 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-03-2019, 04:00 AM Thread Starter
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I checked the APE part #'s, for my years 1000 and your 750- they are different.

I had changed the oil about 1200mi ago, but kept the filter then.

Gave me a chance to get a new filter and oil on/in her.

Happy Independence Day!- tomorrow

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post #12 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-04-2019, 07:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6john View Post
Again, I've never had a manual CCT, but have read about a method of adjusting the tensioner tighter till the noise goes away then backed off some amount.

How do you "feel slack in the crank"? Do you have to take a side cover off to access a crank bolt? Would't the starter sprague clutch make this a bit hard to "feel" in the reverse direction?
I have plugs out and turn towards starter clutch tension 1/8th of a turn then go towards easy direction, youll feel slack if there is any.
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post #13 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-07-2019, 04:57 PM Thread Starter
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Review update:

Now that I've done a few rides and put a few hundred miles on it with the new MCCT,

I have to say that I'm glad I got off my but and finally did it. The cam chain noise was my impetus to change it, although it was a little scary since it's not an OEM style mechanism.

The cam chain clatter at start up, and after operating temp, and at moderate revs is now much quieter. It really feels a bit crisper too with the valve timing not having as much variance- albeit a very small amount.

I think I do have a little valve tappet clatter too- and no, I've never checked it or re-shimmed. It runs to good now to worry about it for a while. Maybe I'll tackle that one this winter/off season?

I had read that changing out the OEM CCT for a newer one, produces similar results. I had already had this MCCT though- so I used it.

For me, It was worth it, YMMV

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post #14 of 14 (permalink) Old 07-08-2019, 06:59 AM
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Good job on the manual CCT install although for a street bike I would stick with the OEM style as the Suzuki automatic CCT functions appropriatly. But, with 20K on the motor I would definitely check your valve clearance as I bet you have some that are pushing the limits and need re-shimmed. Dunno if you had the valve cover off during the manual CCT install but I would at least check the clearances and that way you can order the shims/gasket you need and have them ready for a rainy weekend or winter time install.
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