Please help, L1 600 performance issue - GSXR.com
 
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post #1 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-14-2019, 12:03 PM Thread Starter
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So I've posted before, when I got my 600 last July it came with about 14,000 miles on it and a Jardine GP1 slip-on. CAT is present. When I revved the bike up at that time, even cold, the rpms went up quick and the exhaust had a nice crisp race exhaust sound. At the end of the summer I complained about a muffled sound, and lest pick-up off the line. Over the winter I replaced the plugs, and found that two were barely screwed in all the way and took no effort to unscrew by hand. (I checked the Gap and properly torqued the new plugs). Air filter was dirty and has been replaced with the stock Suzuki filter.
I have already determined that the bike gets better mileage on the highway than in town. I run mostly 93 octane gas. When I rev the bike up, the exhaust sounds muffled or restricted to me, and is not as crisp or higher pitched like it was in the beginning. I checked the rear screen of the CAT, and that still looks the same and not clogged. Today when I started the bike I waited a minute and sprayed water on the exhaust pipes. The two middle pipes evaporated the water a few seconds sooner than the outside, but the middle pipes also have that tuning? Bar running between them. After several more seconds all pipes seemed the same.
The other thing I can offer is that the power doesn't noticably kick in until 5-6,000 rpms, and if I'm in town in 3rd or fourth gear at 5,000 rpms the bike is a dog. I'm not sure what to check next. There is no stuttering, I can't say valves are tapping, but I'm not an expert in the I4 engines. no weird smell from exhaust, and no FI lights. (I have a switch hooked up to the dealer plug in case I get one, I can flip the switch to see the code) RV6John has helped with checking the exca or set valve, and that seems to go through it's rotation properly, (checked by turning on ignition, not starting the bike) I just don't know if it sits in the proper position when the bike is at idle. If it's wide open at idle I've read that can cause a loss of low rpm power, (it's partially designed to create back pressure at lower rpm's?) but should also throw a code?

Last edited by New2Street; 07-14-2019 at 02:15 PM.
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post #2 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 07:36 PM Thread Starter
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Third gear at 4-5,000 rpms has decent power and really pulls at 6,000+. Fourth gear is weak below 5,000 rpms and has plenty of pull as I approach 6,000. Im assuming because of gear ratios those are normal performance?
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post #3 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-15-2019, 11:51 PM
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Sounds about right to me. Power doesn't really kick in till about 6000+ rpm's on the 600's. Especially when you get in 3rd gear and on up you just don't have the torque to spin it up at the lower RPM's.

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post #4 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-16-2019, 03:56 AM
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The SET valve will throw a code if unplugged. That said you can pull a wire out of the ECU to prevent the code. I removed my actuator (leaving the valve intact but wide open) and found very little difference in performance or start up. There was a slightly different sound though...a tiny bit more bass. Honestly, you would have to know the bike well to notice the difference. I'm not convinced that is your issue.

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post #5 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 07:56 AM Thread Starter
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I am not sure what to check next but this bike is really stressing me out. I just had it at my local shop again. The shop does not have electronic equipment to test the bike but they said it sounded fine. To me the bike is noticeably more muffled or restricted when I rev the bike up and now I'm noticing more of a power loss below 6000 RPMs. It doesn't even feel quite as strong above 6,000. I have done a fuel flow test and got 9 oz in 10 seconds so that's better than the 5.6 required. Bike has a little over 15,000 miles. No codes. Not sure what to check next.
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post #6 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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I have tried internet searches on clogged catalytic converters on motorcycles and can't really even find anything almost like it doesn't happen not sure if that could be the problem or not but would hate to cut it off and find out that's not it. if the catalytic converter was clogging up and causing a loss of power wouldn't that extra pressure closer to the engine cause some kind of FI light?
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post #7 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-24-2019, 08:34 AM Thread Starter
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I just checked the exca or set valve on my cold bike. Before turning key on, the valve appears to be closed. I am going to try posting a video of position as key is tuned on through the bike warming up. The valve slowly turns open as I rev the bike to 6,000 rpms. I did not rev higher to see if the valve opens fully.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/YtR7dRXRE6aRWQHg7
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post #8 of 23 (permalink) Old 07-26-2019, 09:35 AM Thread Starter
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If I were to cut the CAT just behind the Set valve as if doing a CAT delete to determine if there is a partial clog, would I give able to get the correct size pipe and two clamps to re-attach it if everything was fine? Otherwise I would order the delete pipe. Just a thought. Getting frustrated that whatever is causing this is not throwing a code. I would think if it was something like the fuel filter the performance at higher RPM's would be as diminished as it is at low. And my flow test was good.

Ok. I guess that's a NO. The inlet to the CAT gets wider at that weld point.

What would happen if I unscrewed the O2 sensor in front of the SET valve to relieve pressure? If I went in a ride and had noticeably more power it could possibly be the CAT. OR, would the O2 sensor removed mess up the air/fuel reading enough that that philosophy won't work? Just trying g to figure this out.

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post #9 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-08-2019, 05:03 PM Thread Starter
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Still puzzled, and still say the engine is loagy when I rev it up and at lower rpm's. Not quite as peppy as it should be at high rpms. Even though I got 9 oz. Of fuel flow in ten seconds, could it still be a partially clogged fuel filter causing this problem?
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post #10 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Pulled the fuel pump today. I am assuming this is a dirty strainer/ fuel filter?? So I ordered a new one.
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post #11 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-09-2019, 11:00 PM
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Pulled the fuel pump today. I am assuming this is a dirty strainer/ fuel filter?? So I ordered a new one.
yeah that would do it. Check the black cartage filter ass well by flushing some fuel through it backwards.

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post #12 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 07:40 AM Thread Starter
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I was able to backflush this filter with carb and choke cleaner spray. it did get whiter but is not perfect that's for sure. It will do until the new one gets here in a few days. The mesh almost seems like it has some kind of coating on it from over the years that could slow down the fuel flow a little? Where is the other filter located you are talking about? I never saw it. Is there any type of stick filter on the other side of these two tubes, or are they just vents?
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post #13 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 11:21 AM Thread Starter
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When I remove the tank to replace the fuel filter should I also pull the fuel injectors and clean them? hopefully when I pull that fuel rail and look at the injectors I'll be able to see the screens on the output side of the injectors and tell whether or not they are dirty? Or,. Should I just see if the new fuel filter fixes the problem.

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post #14 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-10-2019, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by New2Street View Post
I was able to backflush this filter with carb and choke cleaner spray. it did get whiter but is not perfect that's for sure. It will do until the new one gets here in a few days. The mesh almost seems like it has some kind of coating on it from over the years that could slow down the fuel flow a little? Where is the other filter located you are talking about? I never saw it. Is there any type of stick filter on the other side of these two tubes, or are they just vents?


If you look in this picture you can see the black Cartage on the left. you pull it off and it will have the inlet at the top and outlet on the bottom. You can push fuel through it at the bottom to flush any debris out the top that may have gotten stuck.

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When I remove the tank to replace the fuel filter should I also pull the fuel injectors and clean them? hopefully when I pull that fuel rail and look at the injectors I'll be able to see the screens on the output side of the injectors and tell whether or not they are dirty? Or,. Should I just see if the new fuel filter fixes the problem.
I would try the new filter first and if that doesn't fix it clean the injectors or buy new ones. I've had to replace my injectors twice due to ethanol clogging them up and I wasn't able to get them to flow correctly after cleaning.

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post #15 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks Vader, I'll look more closely when I have the new filter. I have seen the pump you show, but the pump in my L1 looks like this.
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post #16 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-11-2019, 07:50 AM
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Thanks Vader, I'll look more closely when I have the new filter. I have seen the pump you show, but the pump in my L1 looks like this.
Yeah the filter on that one is white instead of black, they're pretty much the same.

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post #17 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 10:01 AM Thread Starter
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Now I have changed the fuel filter, (strainer) and that still did not do much. Now I am noticing less power even above 6,000 rpms out on the highway. No codes! I just got the bike inspected today and I asked the garage if they could be of any help. They said they weren't sure about the catalytic converter on my bike, but said if they hook their instrument up to a car even if that wasn't throwing a code their instrument would tell them that the cars catalytic converter was clogging up. Can the motorcycle dealership do the same thing with a bike? They showed me two catalytic converter from cars that had started to clog and the discoloration of the converter housing. Mine isn't discolored but it does seem like the bike heats up over 200 in town fairly easily. Fan is working fine. Temp out was about 70 and bike ran bout 180 on the highway at 80+ mph.
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post #18 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-19-2019, 10:31 PM
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Now I have changed the fuel filter, (strainer) and that still did not do much. Now I am noticing less power even above 6,000 rpms out on the highway. No codes! I just got the bike inspected today and I asked the garage if they could be of any help. They said they weren't sure about the catalytic converter on my bike, but said if they hook their instrument up to a car even if that wasn't throwing a code their instrument would tell them that the cars catalytic converter was clogging up. Can the motorcycle dealership do the same thing with a bike? They showed me two catalytic converter from cars that had started to clog and the discoloration of the converter housing. Mine isn't discolored but it does seem like the bike heats up over 200 in town fairly easily. Fan is working fine. Temp out was about 70 and bike ran bout 180 on the highway at 80+ mph.
Temp is normal, nothing wrong there, I'm betting your injectors are clogged, since that's exactly what happened to my K3 this year. Had to replace them because cleaning them didn't work out. I found a set of replacement ones for about $60 on ebay, and couldn't tell a difference between them and the OEM ones. You can do a fuel flow test which should be about 300 ml of fuel per key cycle and that will tell you if your getting fuel to the injectors. Then you can get a fuel gauge and hook it up between the fuel tank and the fuel rail and check the pressure while running and it should hold steady at 42 psi when you open the throttle. If both tests pass then your injectors are the issue.

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post #19 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 01:54 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks Vader225. I did a fuel flow test earlier in the summer. The service manual states at least 5.6 oz. In 10 seconds. I got 9 oz. In 10 seconds. I'll have to see if my local shop has an inline? Fuel pressure gauge (that's what it sounds like you are suggesting) that we can test the running fuel pressure. Can you send me the link to the fuel injectors you got on eBay? I'm assuming you think the injectors are clogging up more than it being the cat clogging up. I've tried strong doses of different fuel injector cleaners in the gas tank and that has not helped.
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post #20 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-20-2019, 10:38 PM
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I'm pretty sure It's injectors instead of the cat clogging. Bad fuel and the ethanol today has caused me to pull my hair out several times over a bike that I couldn't find anything wrong with and I finally just gave up and got new injectors. It fixed it twice for me, and symptoms are the same as what you have.

You have a lot of options with injectors, can go from the cheepo chinese ones, which I bought and they worked well for me, OEM, OEM used, and mid-grade replacements. I've got links to some below.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/2013-11-15-...CSubmodel%3A--

https://www.ebay.com/itm/11-12-13-14...EAAOSwL2NalFZQ

https://www.ebay.com/itm/163444826627

I'd try pulling the secondary injectors and cleaning them before I try anything else. They open up in the higher RPM's and add more fuel and if they aren't working then your going to notice a pretty big lack of power.

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post #21 of 23 (permalink) Old 08-21-2019, 05:27 PM Thread Starter
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I have the service manual downloaded and have reviewed the disassembly process, but can the secondary injectors be pulled out for cleaning without actually removing the fuel rail? Just thinking less chance of messing something up. I can rig a fitting to attach between the injector and spray cleaner. Does any cleaner actually work better than the others? Thanks. I'm planning on doing this Saturday.
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post #22 of 23 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 10:30 PM
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I have the service manual downloaded and have reviewed the disassembly process, but can the secondary injectors be pulled out for cleaning without actually removing the fuel rail? Just thinking less chance of messing something up. I can rig a fitting to attach between the injector and spray cleaner. Does any cleaner actually work better than the others? Thanks. I'm planning on doing this Saturday.
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Not sure to be honest, With pulling the fuel rail only thing that you have to pay attention to is the o-rings on the injectors and where they mount up to the throttle body. You don't want to pinch or lose one by accident. Or put two in the same hole like I did once... As far as cleaner goes pretty much any carb cleaner will work. You just need voltage applied to the injector to open it. A 9 volt battery and 2 sets of alligator clamps works well. I'd say it's maybe a 2/10 on the difficulty scale.

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post #23 of 23 (permalink) Old Today, 01:56 AM
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I like 2+2 when it comes too the spray fi and carb and choke cleaners, also I think sea foam could work for your project. I’d have to disagree with who ever said there all the same it don’t matter what kind. Most of the sprays you find now at your parts store are environmentally friendly and do not work as well as 2+2. You could also try soaking the injectors in kerosene.

Last edited by PaulPhilly; Today at 03:16 AM.
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