Engine cuts out when riding and won't restart - displays 'CHEC' - GSXR.com
 
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post #1 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 02:46 AM Thread Starter
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Engine cuts out when riding and won't restart - displays 'CHEC'

Hi everyone,

I am having an extremely frustrating problem with my 2000 GSX-R 750 where it will cut out while riding and not restart. Will crank, but not fire whilst displaying 'CHEC' on the dash where the temperature should be. I have tried dealer mode to no avail and it will still just display check even in dealer mode.

BACKGROUND;

Some little s**ts decided to play with some button on my bike including the heated grips whilst i was in work meaning they drained the battery. i got it started by bumpstarting it and had the issues above all the way home. i have charged the battery but it must have been drawing too much current and melted the wiring and fried the regulator so have rewired and changed the regultor ( 14.3V @ 5000RPM). However the issue persists. I have now bypassed the side stand witch as that seemed to be causing an issue too. same problem...

SYMPTOMS;

I've had a few scenarios where the bike has cut out.

1 - i tried charging the battery and taking the bike out but it cut out as i had not sorted the charging system so the battery voltage fell to around 12.0V (could this have damaged components)? tried dealer mode, CHEC only

2 - more recently it has cut out and i have managed to start it again by pressing the side stand switch in ( this has now been bypassed)

3 - pulled away from a set of lights, revved the engine and it went to around 6000RPM (wasn't watching the clocks to be honest so 6000 is a guess) and instantly cut the engine. didn't lock but it was as if the spark or injectors had stopped. checked battery voltage as this was after i had sorted the charging system and it was 12.8 volts. disconnected battery, ECM, starter relay and side stand relay and it eventually just cleared the CHEC code and started. i had tried dealer mode but only CHEC displayed

4 - attempting to get home after number 3, sat at a set of lights again, watching the temperature as it was a hot day. temperature rises and as soon as it hits 100C it cuts out, restarts after fine, and then happily went above 100 and the fan kicked in.

WHAT I'VE TRIED;

i have bypassed the sidestand switch and clutch switch, and have done the following;

new(ish) battery
barnd new regulator
wiring for charging system
side stand/ indicator relay changed
aligned TPS
changed oil, filter and plugs (probably not relevant but for completion)

I have also tried changing the ECM but that was before the charging system so it could be the ECM but was overshadowed by a dead battery.

My next steps as i see them are to check sensors such as the crank and cam position and tip over just incase, get it going and take my spare ECM with me if it cuts out and try that. The arseache is that it is currently SORN so i have to book an MOT to test any attempted fixes.
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post #2 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-28-2019, 03:16 AM
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Sounds frustrating.

First. The cluster displays "CHEC" when it has not received any data from the ECM for a few seconds.
Usually this is because the kill switch is not in the "run" position or the side stand is not up and the bike is in gear. These cut power to the ECM.

There is no relationship between any sensor or the charging system to the "CHEC" indication.

On the K6 bikes, if "CHEC" is showing, but the starter still works, that means the kill switch, side stand relay and switch are fine. I would suggest consulting a wiring diagram to confirm that you vintage bike does the same.

My guess is that you have an intermediate connection providing power to the ECM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


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post #3 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 12:04 AM Thread Starter
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thanks for your quick reply.

By intermittent connection problem, do you mean more dodgy connectors/ bad wiring than something more like a faulty kill switch?
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post #4 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-29-2019, 05:23 AM
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There are a few reasons why you might be getting the CHEC indication.

Power being interrupted to the ECM. You can see this in action by just actuating the kill switch with the ignition on. About 3 seconds later CHEC will pop up.

The data wire between the ECM and the cluster being faulty, but that would not kill the bike. Just cause a CHEC.

Last would be a failing ECM. Less likely but not unheard of.

Your kill switch should be fine as the power for the starter button/relay goes through that switch. You said the bike would crank so the switch must be fine.

I believe power goes through the side stand relay before going to the kill switch so that is good also if the bike cranks.

Have you carefully checked the pins on the ECM plugs to make sure a wire has not backed out?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


"We're all here because we're not all there" - Guy Favron on Gold Rush

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post #5 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-30-2019, 03:28 AM Thread Starter
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Ok thanks for the detailed explanation.

It is entirely possible the ECM has failed as it was probably being fried by the dodgy regulator! i have a spare so will take that with me on my next attempt. I will check the the ECM plugs today if i get time.

Thanks! will report back
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post #6 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 03:16 AM Thread Starter
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Just looking for a bit more information on the CHEC message. if the bike is NOT in dealer mode and a sensor becomes faulty, will a CHEC message come up on the dash? After researching dealer mode a bit more, it seems i would have cleared any error message by turning off the bike to get to the dealer mode plug (only one key).

i have now installed a switch i can flip without turning off the bike. If there was a fault with a sensor etc that would stop the bike starting,if i had turned the ignition and turned it back on, would CHEC persevere with dealer mode activated if the bike had not started. Or is it dependent on each sensor etc as they seem to have different timings until they activate the FI circuit.

im currenty trying to put the bike back together as i was checking a few more bits just incase and have two more thoughts.

firstly, the bike has an immobiliser, which seems to indicate CHEC when not disarmed. How involved is disabling the immobiliser as I'm wondering if that could be it?

Secondly, i swapped to a manual cam chain tensioner as i found out a previous numpty had for some unknown reason removed the ball bearing in the stock tensioner and had read some good things about them. I can't see how, but could this have any influence on any sensors?

Thanks
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post #7 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 10:07 AM
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I've been following your post, and RV6John knows better than I, but I know back in the day people would rig kill switches to their cars that either completely killed power to the starter or allowed it to crank but not let the engine start. SO, if that has faulty wiring or wasn't wired properly, maybe the immobilizer is your problem?
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post #8 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 01:06 PM
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As I said earlier, the "CHEC" indication is shown when the cluster has not received any data from the ECM for a few seconds. Otherwise it is produced by the cluster, not the ECM. It is not an error or FI code.

Why the cluster is not receiving data is the question.

You will not be able to get to dealer mode as that is an ECM output to the cluster and the ECM is not sending any data to the cluster.

Are you talking about the factory immobilizer used outside the U.S. or and aftermarket product?

I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the factory immobilizer allows the bike to crank but not start and does throw an FI error code.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


"We're all here because we're not all there" - Guy Favron on Gold Rush

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post #9 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 02:32 PM
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Im thinking your kill switch is bad or a relay is bad since you only have a problem after the bike warms up. A lot of electrical components such as switches and especially relays/ solenoids while going bad will work until they get warm. I think I seen someone mention you possibly have a failing ecm if you have one you can borrow or swap out I’d recommend trying a test run with another ecm.
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post #10 of 13 (permalink) Old 07-31-2019, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulPhilly View Post
Im thinking your kill switch is bad or a relay is bad since you only have a problem after the bike warms up. A lot of electrical components such as switches and especially relays/ solenoids while going bad will work until they get warm. I think I seen someone mention you possibly have a failing ecm if you have one you can borrow or swap out Id recommend trying a test run with another ecm.
The second sentence of his first post states that the engine will crank with the starter but not run and displays "CHEC".

The starter would not operate if the kill switch or side stand relay was no working correctly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


"We're all here because we're not all there" - Guy Favron on Gold Rush

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post #11 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 03:24 AM Thread Starter
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OK, my issue is that I have to make an attempt to the MOT garage to be legal and I think I'm pissing them off at this point after 3 attempts lol.

So as much as I want to know what the issue is (and I will find out eventually) at this point anything is worth a try and money has been put aside. So any ideas before I take a new attempt are welcome.

- New ECM (I bought a spare and tried it but before I fixed the charging system)

- maybe new loom to see if it was a dodgy wire as I need the bike ASAP

- disconnect the immobiliser if its possible (inputs welcome)

- anything else?

On the immobiliser I believe it is a factory fitted one. I know that throws CHEC on the dash if it's not disarmed.

Just to be clear, CHEC will never be accompanied by an FI code?

Thanks
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post #12 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-01-2019, 05:03 AM
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I think I've said it two times already, but "CHEC" in the cluster means that the cluster is saying it is not receiving data from the ECM. No data = no codes or any other information.

Find an owners manual (not the service manual) for your bike and read about the cluster and what CHEC means. I found it in the one for my K6 bikes.

I did not know you were in the EU (at least for the moment). Those bikes did have the factory immobilizer. Do some research or ask a Suzuki friend what happens if you have the wrong key, etc. As I said earlier, I understand the bike will crank but not start and I think will throw a C42 Ignition circuit error.

On the U.S. bikes they put some sort of resistor in the ignition switch itself to take the place of the immobilizer stuff but I thing the wiring was also different.

My suggestion is that you forget about the immobilizer till you get the ECM to wake up.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


"We're all here because we're not all there" - Guy Favron on Gold Rush

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post #13 of 13 (permalink) Old 08-13-2019, 07:22 AM Thread Starter
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So just an update, I was looking at the bike a couple of days ago (sorting the starter motor) and trying to check any component that could cause the CHEC message and lo and behold it displayed suddenly.

Great!!! i can now check over the bike in the comfort of the garage. So fiddled about with the clutch switch ( i have it bypassed with a paperclip) and the connectors for the immobiliser. Found the immobiliser connectors were corroded. Gave them a clean aswell as the clutch switch and the message disappeared.

Could be onto something, maybe it was just a coincidence. Going to sort the starter motor and then take it to the MOT station (or at least attempt).

Related question. Is it legal to ride a motorcycle in the UK with no MOT to a garage to get something fixed if an appointment is made. I'll need the bike for my new job soon so might give it to a garage as my time is thin
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