Gsxr 600 k4 stalls/cuts off when hot - GSXR.com
 
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post #1 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 03:24 PM Thread Starter
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Gsxr 600 k4 stalls/cuts off when hot

So, my k4 600 will randomly stall/sut off when hot. Talking around 100km of driving. When it does happen it will start happening often. Lets say every couple or ten minutes. If it cools down i can ride longer before it decides to stall/cut off again.
There is no fi code in dealer mode when it happens. It just says check.
Weird part is that it will crank when this happens and i can hear the fuel pump priming. I suspect there is no power comming to coils or injectors.
I checked usual suspects as side stand, kill switch. R/r is good and so is the stator. All in factory specs. Charging is a bit high, 15 v at idle and 14.8 at 5k rpm which is also ok according to manual. Battery is not overheating. Main ground is good, battery terminals are good. Ecu ground is good.
Wiggled harnes arround sensors, stand switch, kill switch, main loom, ecu connections. Basicly everywhere i could get my hand in.
Also, when it cuts off and chows check error, it crancks and fuel pump runs. That is weird, right? Again, no fi codes. Just stupid check error.
Didn't check coils or plugs. Didn't check injectors. It doesn't start to run on 3 cylinders or something like that. When it stalls or cuts of its all cylinders at once, so i don't think it is individual injektor/plug/coil scenario.
Some sensors that can make the bike do this? I figure that if sensor goes bad it would give me a code in dealers mode?
Now, my suspect is ecu. It gets quite hot while running. I can still hold it but it gets significantly hot. How warm/hot does it usually get?
Hope somebody has the similar experience.
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post #2 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 04:08 PM
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Sounds very familiar to someone who had an ECM issue recently. CHECK on the dash means there's no signal from the ECM. The fuel pump relay and injectors get power from the same line, so I'm sure your injectors are getting power if the pump is running. I think if it's not the ECM, it could be lack of power to the ECM.

Do you know someone with a k4-5 600? Swap ECM and go for a ride. See if the problem follows the ECM or the bike.
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post #3 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-03-2019, 07:44 PM
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"CHEC" is not an FI error. It is the cluster telling you that it has not received any data from the ECM for a few seconds. You can see this work by actuating the kill switch with the ignition on. In a few seconds "CHEC" will appear.

With it dying when hot but working again when cooled a bit, I was leaning towards a Crankshaft Position Sensor.

But with a CHEC indication, the fuel pump should not be priming/running as that is ECM controlled.

The starter will work regardless as long as the ignition and kill switch are on. It is not controlled by the ECM so this can be disregarded.

With the variables that you state, Chuckster's idea of swapping the ECM is the best route. It does seem to be failing when hot. At least a portion of it.

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post #4 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 01:51 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
Sounds very familiar to someone who had an ECM issue recently. CHECK on the dash means there's no signal from the ECM. The fuel pump relay and injectors get power from the same line, so I'm sure your injectors are getting power if the pump is running. I think if it's not the ECM, it could be lack of power to the ECM.

Do you know someone with a k4-5 600? Swap ECM and go for a ride. See if the problem follows the ECM or the bike.
I'm thinking about signal from ecu that goes to injectors/coils. It does send a signal to actuate them.
How can i test quallity of power that acu is suplied with?
Unfortunately i don't have a spare ecu i can borrow. My best bet would be to gamble with second hand one from ebay.
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post #5 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 02:00 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6john View Post
"CHEC" is not an FI error. It is the cluster telling you that it has not received any data from the ECM for a few seconds. You can see this work by actuating the kill switch with the ignition on. In a few seconds "CHEC" will appear.

With it dying when hot but working again when cooled a bit, I was leaning towards a Crankshaft Position Sensor.

But with a CHEC indication, the fuel pump should not be priming/running as that is ECM controlled.

The starter will work regardless as long as the ignition and kill switch are on. It is not controlled by the ECM so this can be disregarded.

With the variables that you state, Chuckster's idea of swapping the ECM is the best route. It does seem to be failing when hot. At least a portion of it.
Pump running is the reason im leaning to the ecu failure.
I'm thinking about putting smal computer fan under the seat to improve airflow/cooling arround ecu and see if it helps a bit. Its a long short, but it could help to cool down ecu and make it run loger.
Do you know how hot ecu gets while operational? Mine is expelling some serious heat. No molten plastic or any visual defects, but it does get significantly hot.
Is it enough to mesure resistance in CPS sensor? Will it deviate from specs also when cold, evenif it is intermittent problem?
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post #6 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 02:53 AM
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I think I would search your local classifieds for a Ecu via craigslist, offer up, let go, market place, etc . 100-200$ if you find one cheaper than 100$ you may want to scoop it up just to have as a backup weather it’s the issue or not. You may even get lucky and find a guy willing to let you test it before you buy it. I have 2 750 ecu for sale if a guy came to me with a problem and asked can I swap it out first to test on and if it works I’ll buy it I’d probably let him if they were nice, just to help a fellow biker.
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post #7 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 05:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.bratich View Post
Pump running is the reason im leaning to the ecu failure.
Yes, that is what I think also. A failed CKP sensor sometimes does not cause an FI fault and tests just fine. I don't think the fault checks in the ECM are very sophisticated. I just fixed a 600 that was in a shop for 2 months due to no spark. We did all the tests and they were fine. We pulled the cover and found one of the screws holding the CKP sensor loose and stuck to the sensor. The bike fired right up afterward.
There have been at least three posts here over the last few years about bikes that would not re-start when hot. Some of these guys did a ton of parts swapping and finally it came down to a new CKP sensor fixing the problem. Again, no FI fault.

In your situation, getting the "CHEC" indication at the same time the fuel pump is operating is not normal and points back to the ECM. The only other plausible way for these two conditions to happen would be for the data wire to the cluster to opening. Since it is so consistent that the bike dies and a few seconds later CHEC comes on rules that out. BTW, the cluster is just an indicator and does nothing for the running of the bike. You can remove it totally and the bike will start and run just fine.


Quote:
Originally Posted by A.bratich View Post
I'm thinking about putting smal computer fan under the seat to improve airflow/cooling arround ecu and see if it helps a bit. Its a long short, but it could help to cool down ecu and make it run loger.
Do you know how hot ecu gets while operational? Mine is expelling some serious heat. No molten plastic or any visual defects, but it does get significantly hot.
We went though a post a few months ago where the ECM was failing when it got hot. I suggested putting a bag of ice on the ECM to see if it changed the time it would run. It did and changing the ECM cured the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by A.bratich View Post
Is it enough to mesure resistance in CPS sensor? Will it deviate from specs also when cold, evenif it is intermittent problem?
It seems that the checks are really not very good at determining the health of the CKP unless it is a gross malfunction such as a totally open coil. The one I mentioned above tested perfectly on the resistance check and even the peak voltage check while cranking.

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Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


"We're all here because we're not all there" - Guy Favron on Gold Rush

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post #8 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-04-2019, 01:09 PM Thread Starter
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Thank you all for replys. You are really helpful with all info and I appreciate it allot.
Rv6john, you really know this stuff and it helps allot.
Went for 180 km ride today ad again it started stalling after 100 km. Stopped at gas pump, took ecu out, let it cool down for 10-15 min and continued my next 80 km ride with no hickups. Ambient temp did drop a bit. From 30+ degC on the beginning of the ride to 25 on the end. But still, i beleive its ecu.
When i get a new one I'll post the result.
Again, thank you all for inputs, its been of great help
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post #9 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Update:
Installed 2 small coolers with fans 40x40x10mm on ecu with moment glue ant thermal paste, and and one bigger fan 40x40x30mm near the subframe to push the fresh air in the ecu compartment. Wired it all up to the rear position light. Did 500 km in one go basicaly. Mixed driving: city, canyons and highway. No problems. Never cut out, never stuttered. So, I'm in search of good used cdi to definetly comfirm this. Tomorrow I'll post pics of how did i setup the cooling. Could be useful for future cases. Cooling setup costed abut 20usd, which I'd say is cheap to troubleshoot something like this.
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post #10 of 10 (permalink) Old 09-05-2019, 05:21 PM
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Another guy with the same problem hooked up a small cheap voltmeter to the Orange/Green wire at the ecu to monitor the 12v feed directly to the ecu. When his bike stalled the 12v remained ON, indicating that all his wiring and engine interlock circuitry was good, but something inside the ecu was shutting down.
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