Motor Cuts Out - CHEC Light - GSXR.com
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post #1 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 10:23 AM Thread Starter
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Motor Cuts Out - CHEC Light

Hi Everyone

This is my first post in the tech forum - thank you for having me!

My 1000 K6 has started misbehaving. I went for a ride the other day and the motor cut out within 2 minutes of leaving home. The display showed CHEC, and the motor would crank but would not restart.

Left overnight the bike started up again fine.

Since then Iíve been on a couple more rides and the pattern is: the motor begins to hesitate as if the ignition has been briefly cut, but keeps running. Eventually, the motor cuts out completely. Initially, the motor will restart (CHEC is not displayed), and will run briefly before cutting out again. After a handful of restarts, it cuts out and CHEC is displayed. The motor then cranks but will not restart.

The FI light is not on and the dealer switch does not show any error codes.

Iíve checked the engine kill switch, sidestand switch, and battery connections. Based on some of the other threads I have read I am wondering if the ECU could be at fault? In contrast to some of the other threads, my problems donít only occur when the engine is hot.

A confession: electrics are not my strength so if things get much more involved than the basic checks I have done I may have to take the bike to a shop!

If anyone has any insights into what is going on, I would really appreciate them. Thanks in advance for any responses!
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post #2 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-21-2019, 12:53 PM
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Good post.

First, the cluster shows "CHEC" when it has not received any data from the ECM for a few seconds.

We usually see "CHEC" when we use the kill switch or if the side stand is not up and the bike is in gear. The reason "CHEC" comes up then is that both these conditions cut power to the ECM so no data to the cluster. However, if either of these conditions are present, the bike will not normally crank.

I think you might have an ECM that is failing when hot. There is a thread just a week ago with the same symptoms and another a couple of months ago. On the one a few months ago, he diagnosed it by putting some ice on the ECM and confirming it ran a lot longer before quitting.

Do a search.

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post #3 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-22-2019, 02:09 AM Thread Starter
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Really appreciate the quick response. Thank you.

I located the threads you mentioned and will try icing the ECM to see if that improves things. I will report back.

Thanks again!
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post #4 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 08:28 AM Thread Starter
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I had an opportunity to do some more testing today.

The bike started up, then cut out within 5 seconds or so, as I was pulling away. As before, CHEC was displayed on the cluster, the bike would crank but would not restart.

I sprayed the ECM with some freezing spray, to make sure it was good and cold (the bike had been sitting out in the Spanish sun for a while before I started it, so I wanted to rule out ambient warming as the cause of the problem). It made no difference. Even with a cooled ECM, CHEC remains on the cluster, and the bike cranks but will not restart.

Could we still be dealing with a failed ECM, just not a heat-related failure? In my research I came across the website of an ECM repair company in the UK which lists the K6 1000 as a "problem bike" so far as its ECM is concerned. Extract below:

"GSXR 1000 ecu, part number 41G00 and 41G50. This ecu regularly dies for no reason. A replacement ecu and coded keys is needed."

See: Motomotrix | Help With Problem Motorbikes / Motocycles

My ECM is the 41G50.

The only other thing that occurred to me is that the bike used to have an aftermarket alarm/immobiliser system. A Datatool I think. The system started acting up, so I had a shop remove it some years ago. Could a botched removal of the alarm/immobiliser system now be causing these symptoms?

Thanks in advance for any thoughts!
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post #5 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 09:06 AM
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The key would be to find out if you are getting power to the ECM when CHEC is displayed.

A perusal of the wiring diagram will tell you what wires should have power.

If you have power to the ECM and still get CHEC, the ECM is the problem.

If you don't have power, you need to trace that down.

Not knowing what alarm was installed and how it was removed, who knows? But that could be a possibility.

The good thing is that the symptoms are happening consistently so you should be able to nail it down.

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post #6 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 03:25 PM
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John, could this be a poor or intermittent ground on the ECU? I have been trying to follow along and learn, I am confused if CHECK means no power or no data or both.

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post #7 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-24-2019, 07:06 PM
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The cluster is only a display unit for the ECM data. The data is passed to the cluster through a single wire (serial data) I don't believe the cluster sends anything back to the ECM.

The cluster displays "CHEC" when it has not received any data from the ECM for a few seconds. Otherwise, the ECM does not send "CHEC" to the cluster, the cluster displays it on it's own when it needs to.

So the reasons you see "CHEC" would be; 1. Bad wire between the cluster and the ECM, 2. ECM does not have power (kill switch or side stand relay) or 3. ECM is not sending data because it is faulty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


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post #8 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-25-2019, 01:13 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks again for the continued input. Yes it's helpful that the symptoms are now showing continually, rather than intermittently.

I spent some time today studying the wiring diagram in my Haynes Manual (not sure if you have those on the other side of the Atlantic) for the bike, but I am having a hard time working out which wires carry power to the ECM. Apart from wiring a household plug, I have zero electronics experience and am trying to feel my way along. To be honest I am already getting out of my depth, so I have decided to take the bike to a local shop for a diagnosis. It's booked in on 7 October (couldn't get in prior to then, Spanish bike shops seem plenty busy). I will report back once the shop has taken a look.

Thanks again.
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post #9 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-26-2019, 03:37 PM
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A poor connection somewhere seems plausible.
Under the left side fairing there is a yellow connector that gets bad terminal connections.

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post #10 of 24 (permalink) Old 09-30-2019, 06:30 AM
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Factory OEM (Yuasa) battery?
Loose battery connections can stop a bike from running which includes the charging system.
Using a paperclip or dealer switch do you have any FI (fuel injection) codes at the bottom right of your speedo, if so what numbers?

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post #11 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 05:02 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerxxxgsxr1000 View Post
A poor connection somewhere seems plausible.
Under the left side fairing there is a yellow connector that gets bad terminal connections.
Thanks for the suggestion. I pulled the left side fairing today and checked that yellow connector. I disconnected it, cleaned the pins with electrical contact cleaner and checked for any loose wires. Unfortunately no luck.

I do hope it is something as simple as a poor connection somewhere. I will let you know what the shop finds when the bike goes in next week.
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post #12 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 05:53 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVL 750 View Post
Factory OEM (Yuasa) battery?
Loose battery connections can stop a bike from running which includes the charging system.
Using a paperclip or dealer switch do you have any FI (fuel injection) codes at the bottom right of your speedo, if so what numbers?
Thanks for your thoughts.

1. The battery is an aftermarket lithium ion battery, fitted about 10 months ago. I checked the connections and they seem good and tight.

2. I used my dealer switch to check for FI codes, but because the cluster is showing "CHEC", no FI codes can be shown on the cluster. I understand that this is normal; in other words, when "CHEC" is displayed on the cluster, the cluster can't display any FI error codes, even if they exist. It will only show "CHEC". Someone can hopefully chime in if I am wrong.

At the moment I am still at a loss, but hopefully I will get some clarity when the bike goes into the shop next week.
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post #13 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 08:01 AM
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Every time I ever got a CHEC it was something dumb like clutch switch, kill switch, fuel pump died, battery cables came loose, or something else electrical. Your bike runs then does not, so I would expect your loosing fuel. You can rent a fuel pressure gauge from autozone if you suspect the fuel pump is going dead.

Are there any other symptoms or info you can give?

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post #14 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-03-2019, 07:32 PM
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After trying to figure out my 03 dying w/ out any codes, Iíd recommend you trying a ECU. Thatís what fixed mine
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post #15 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 05:07 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVL 750 View Post
Every time I ever got a CHEC it was something dumb like clutch switch, kill switch, fuel pump died, battery cables came loose, or something else electrical. Your bike runs then does not, so I would expect your loosing fuel. You can rent a fuel pressure gauge from autozone if you suspect the fuel pump is going dead.

Are there any other symptoms or info you can give?
Thanks. In terms of other symptoms/info, when CHEC is displayed on the cluster, the motor will crank (but not start). I think this rules out a faulty kill switch and a faulty side stand/ignition inter-lock system, because if the fault lay there, the motor would normally not crank.

At this point, I am leaning towards a faulty ECM (or the ECM losing power). I will see what the shop says when the bike goes in on Monday.
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post #16 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimmy boy View Post
After trying to figure out my 03 dying w/ out any codes, Iíd recommend you trying a ECU. Thatís what fixed mine
Thanks, glad you got yours fixed. Yes, I fear it may come to this. As mine is a UK model bike it will be necessary to buy an ECM along with the associated coded ignition keys, ignition barrel, fuel tank lock and rear seat lock. Breakers seem to be charging around 300 pounds for the set. But if that's what is needed to get mine fixed, I will do it.
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post #17 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 05:31 AM
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I am not well versed on the immobilizer system since it is not used in the U.S.

However, I did notice years ago that there is an "immobilizer" component in the wiring diagram for bikes equipped with such but not used on the U.S. bikes.

Also, the part number for the ECM for all the bikes is the same p.n. 32920-41G60.

This leads me to believe that the key code match up is to the immobilizer unit and not the ECM.

For what it is worth, I've also never heard of these ECMs needing to be coded to the bike.

Long and short, I believe you will just need to replace the ECM. I would be interested in what your shop says.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuckster View Post
If you think reading is tricky, how the hell are you going to follow troubleshooting directions?
"Riding well is difficult, riding poorly is easy and painful."
- Nick Ienatsch


"We're all here because we're not all there" - Guy Favron on Gold Rush

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post #18 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 08:23 AM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6john View Post
I am not well versed on the immobilizer system since it is not used in the U.S.

However, I did notice years ago that there is an "immobilizer" component in the wiring diagram for bikes equipped with such but not used on the U.S. bikes.

Also, the part number for the ECM for all the bikes is the same p.n. 32920-41G60.

This leads me to believe that the key code match up is to the immobilizer unit and not the ECM.

For what it is worth, I've also never heard of these ECMs needing to be coded to the bike.

Long and short, I believe you will just need to replace the ECM. I would be interested in what your shop says.
That's good to know. I will let you know what the shop says.
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post #19 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-04-2019, 01:09 PM
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It's more complicated than that. Here are the K6 1000 ECMs:
32920-41G40 P37 (Brazil, K5 & K6, probably different map for high ethanol gas)
32920-41G50 E2,E19 (Europe, immobilizer & catalytic converter)
32920-41G60 E3,E28,E33 (US & Canada)
32920-41G70 E24 (Australia, immobilizer)
32920-41G80 E19(GSX-R1000U2) (Europe, limited power, immobilizer & catalytic converter)

There's a tag on top of the ECM with the PN. But if someone has been in it flashing, the tag may be very different from what you have.

I'd suggest connecting a 12 V LED between the O/W (O/G on immobilizer equipped models) and B/W leads on the dealer mode connector. That will tell you if the ECM is getting power.

Also note that the immobilizer models (E2, E19, E24) have a harness that's set up for installation of an auxillary alarm. There are two additional connectors located near to the dealer mode connector. One has a single black lead and the other has four black leads and a jumper that plugs into it if no alarm is installed. You might check that the jumper isn't corroded. It connects O/W (12 V) from the ignition switch to O/G to the ECM and dealer mode connector.

I can only guess about what the flashers did but they probably just disabled the immobilizer checking, which is part of the ECM. The non-immobilizer models have a rudimentary anti-theft feature that is also part of the ECM. The ignition switch and wiring harness are matched to the type of anti-theft. So if all the flashers did was to disable the immobilizer, you probably still have the immobilizer ignition switch and harness but no anti-theft at all.

The big connector inside the left front fairing is well known for developing corroded terminals. That can give you CHEC, but the bike will still run, i.e. it will run if the connector is unplugged. It wouldn't hurt to unplug the ECM and inspect those contacts. They're normally fine but can develop corrosion if a lead is removed and the resultant hole isn't plugged.
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Last edited by billv; 10-04-2019 at 01:40 PM.
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post #20 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 06:20 AM
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My thinking is still the battery or charging system. It was running and then it begins to die. You said you have a aftermarket LI battery but that doesn't tell me anything. The voltage and amps must be identical to the Yuasa battery installed by Suzuki. Your battery could be dying especially since you said that it starts fine by the next morning. I would try a friends battery just to rule it out.
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post #21 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-07-2019, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EVL 750 View Post
Every time I ever got a CHEC it was something dumb like clutch switch, kill switch, fuel pump died, battery cables came loose, or something else electrical. Your bike runs then does not, so I would expect your loosing fuel. You can rent a fuel pressure gauge from autozone if you suspect the fuel pump is going dead.

Are there any other symptoms or info you can give?
Except mine has done it a few times and it always was the ECU
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post #22 of 24 (permalink) Old 10-08-2019, 01:24 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks to everyone for the further posts. As of yesterday, the bike is in the shop and the mechanic is taking a look at it. I will post here as soon as the shop gives me some news.
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post #23 of 24 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 07:43 AM Thread Starter
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Update - bike fixed!

I collected the bike from the shop today. The mechanic traced the fault to a bad electrical connection. Apparently, there was a bad connection within the white connector shown resting on the middle of the battery in the attached photo. It's a capped connector that normally lives under the passenger seat. I am not certain of its purpose but it isn't mated to anything and has a single hole in the cap.

As you can see, the wiring leading to the connector shows evidence of tampering (possibly from when the old aftermarket alarm and immobilizer system was removed after it started acting up). But that wasn't the cause of the fault, the fault lay within the connector itself apparently.

I recall seeing another thread somewhere where this connector was causing similar problems, so it seems I am not alone.

I am just back from a one hour test ride and so far no issues.

Big thanks to all for the help troubleshooting this.
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post #24 of 24 (permalink) Old Yesterday, 08:03 AM Thread Starter
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billv, I am just re-reading your post and I think you had it right with this suggestion. You also describe the connector at fault better than i could above:

"Also note that the immobilizer models (E2, E19, E24) have a harness that's set up for installation of an auxillary alarm. There are two additional connectors located near to the dealer mode connector. One has a single black lead and the other has four black leads and a jumper that plugs into it if no alarm is installed. You might check that the jumper isn't corroded. It connects O/W (12 V) from the ignition switch to O/G to the ECM and dealer mode connector."

So, thank you very much.
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Last edited by Tentontimmy; Yesterday at 08:06 AM.
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