Are wrecks inevitable? - Page 2 - GSXR.com
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post #41 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-21-2012, 04:26 AM
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Number 7 is so true, wish I could wear that on a T-Shirt all the time.

We all love speeding, but if the SUV in front of you forgets to indicate and suddenly brakes, you will be the one getting hurt.
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post #42 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-28-2012, 09:15 AM
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I'm very new to riding. Purchasing my 1st bike right now(check out avatar). I can never get enough of safety information
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post #43 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-06-2012, 01:16 PM
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Awesome reading.. very informative me as a new rider im doing the MSF atm but this def helped out also. thanks for the post
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post #44 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-07-2012, 01:58 AM
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I'm going to print this out and give copies to anyone I ride with. Both for them and for me. Might seem kinda lame but this information will save lives. I think I would have ridden differently on my first bike if I had considered some of the statistics and points the author made. Thanks for passing this along.
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post #45 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-10-2012, 04:17 AM
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Had a couple of very close shaves but it's been one year of riding (two months of which on my K1 GSXR-600) and no accidents, touch wood. (Two 'Vehicle Contacts' where I filtered into wing mirrors but nothing broken.) I never go anywhere without my spine protector.

Very good points made up there but one worth adding would be that not only do you stand more chance of crashing the longer you ride, but also there's a crossover point where rider experience and rider confidence meet at a dangerous imbalance.

Riders that are inexperienced
Riders that are confident

These are most likely to cause/get into the accidents.
Unfortunately most of the time, you don't know your limits until you accidentally meet them. That one's yet to come for me but I'll just keep wearing my gear and doing what I can.
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post #46 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-10-2012, 08:29 AM
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Unless you are some 16 year old with a I'm God mentality, then you will more than likely die. Troof. Speaking of 16 year olds, what happened to YoshiBlaise? or whatever his name was..
Oh noes 16 yr olds? In this town just about everybody is 18 to 25 who i'm (avoiding) riding with... slowly I'm upgrading to an older crowd... but I think it's because they whittle their own numbers down (the amount of boys that ride here in flip flops and a baseball cap is outstanding).
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post #47 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-10-2012, 10:36 AM
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Oh noes 16 yr olds? In this town just about everybody is 18 to 25 who i'm (avoiding) riding with... slowly I'm upgrading to an older crowd... but I think it's because they whittle their own numbers down (the amount of boys that ride here in flip flops and a baseball cap is outstanding).
Most people my age are on Harleys, so I can't upgrade to an older crowd. Unless of course I trade in the gix for a wheelchair.

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post #48 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-10-2012, 10:46 AM
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Most people my age are on Harleys, so I can't upgrade to an older crowd. Unless of course I trade in the gix for a wheelchair.
LOL!!! well I'm 21, and most of us are retarded. I've been riding with a crowd in Topeka... and I'm thinking they're even crazier... I'ma stick with my boo Kylee here we'll just turtle around until we feel safe with the big boys.
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post #49 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-10-2012, 04:50 PM
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......but also there's a crossover point where rider experience and rider confidence meet at a dangerous imbalance.

Riders that are inexperienced
Riders that are confident

These are most likely to cause/get into the accidents.
Unfortunately most of the time, you don't know your limits until you accidentally meet them. That one's yet to come for me but I'll just keep wearing my gear and doing what I can.
+1 right here. Its hard to explain sometimes, but those that know..well they know. My younger brother low sided on hwy-74 out here in cali, hit some gravel right before entering a turn and the bike slide off an embankment. $9750 in damage, not including the stitches on his knee. He had just started riding in February too...good thing he had his helmet, jacket and gloves on.

Be careful out there.
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post #50 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-17-2012, 09:06 PM
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Post Thanks for the post

Joshua42007 thanks for the post, I am starting the MSF this Thursday and found this information helpful to prepare myself for riding. Thanks!
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post #51 of 168 (permalink) Old 05-14-2012, 05:07 PM
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Thanks for the advise!
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post #52 of 168 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 11:39 AM
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truth
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post #53 of 168 (permalink) Old 05-15-2012, 11:55 AM
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Good post!


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post #54 of 168 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 04:41 PM
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You have to push yourself to gain experience, but you don't have to push beyond your limits. Live and learn
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post #55 of 168 (permalink) Old 05-16-2012, 07:49 PM
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post #56 of 168 (permalink) Old 05-30-2012, 12:03 PM
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We always used to say that there were two types of riders...
Those that have crashed, and those that are going to crash.

Just make sure you are prepared when it happens.
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post #57 of 168 (permalink) Old 06-10-2012, 09:09 PM
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We always used to say that there were two types of riders...
Those that have crashed, and those that are going to crash.

Just make sure you are prepared when it happens.
Def. Agree. I've been riding for over 7 years. A car finally hit me. Good thing i believe in wearing FULL gear. Still broke my ankle tho. Dress for the crash and not the ride gentlemen.

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post #58 of 168 (permalink) Old 08-04-2012, 06:47 PM
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LOL



I was thinking the same thing about experience leading to overconfidence!

That was my mistake, i got so used to taking corners at such a high speed on the street, i stopped thinking about other factors, like a warm tire, debris in the road. Im paying the price for it now but lucky to be alive!
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post #59 of 168 (permalink) Old 08-11-2012, 02:03 PM
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Must read for all motorcyclist. Very informative, thank you.
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post #60 of 168 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 11:24 AM
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very informative. thanks
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post #61 of 168 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 01:11 PM
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Just read through this entire thread. Thanks for the great advice guys.


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post #62 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 03:42 AM
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I made it 27 years of street riding before my first wreck... thank you SHOEI for saving my life. I do have a broken neck though thanks to the van driver who decided to take a left directly in front of me. Now I have quality parts to sell(cheap) from the 2011 gsxr1000 that i was riding...
too bad I'm not a big post person... that means i can't offer them here. Whats the reasoning behind the post rule?
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post #63 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 09:37 AM
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My answer is no, crashes are not inevitable. They do happen to most of us at one point or another, but you can go for decades between crashes. I hate it when people say they are inevitable, or repeat trite sayings like "There are two types of riders..." or "Winners never quit." and then actually believe them. They are just generalizations, not truths.

I think that a lot of the time, an attitude that you can't prevent all accidents can lead to less effort in preventing them. A lot of people just think that if it's "Your Time", you are going to bite it. To me, that's just another trite saying, just another stupid generalization that people use to let themselves and others off the hook when they lose focus and bin it.

I've been riding sport bikes fast for more than 30 years, and done more than 100 days at the track. Yes, I've crashed a few times. Every time, I did something that was less than ideal to contribute to the event. I always try to keep improving my handling of situations to bring it closer to perfect. I know I can't be perfect in real life, but I have crashed one hell of a lot less than others who haven't worked as hard on trying.

So I like to tell myself that all crashes are preventable even though intellectually I know that something could potentially come completely out of the blue to take me out. But the vast majority of things that cause crashes are not so unpredictable.
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post #64 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-02-2013, 11:42 AM
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When one ask "are crashes inevitable?", one must also state in what venue!

There are a lot of different venues to the sportbike. Riding on the street such as commuting, fun riding, and traveling. It is possible one do those for a long period of time without a crash. Not likely though, but it is possible.

Now, you come to swift canyon riding..Done on a regular basis on tech curves, you will crash at one time or another.

Now, you come to doing trackdays. At one point and time, you will crash here too.

All out racing, you will crash! Period In the racing environment the rider pushes the envelope every time they race.
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post #65 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 01:29 PM
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lets face it.. we don't buy crotch rockets to drive the speed limit.. we buy them because they are fast, light, fun and they get our adrenalin going!

Everyone crashes.. its inevatible.. I mean even if you are a nancy.. and dont break the road rules.. one day there will be gravel where you don't expect it, or a deer pops out (happened to 2 budz of mine), a bear on the road (again someone I know), some idiot turns left in front of you.. etc

Dress for the crash not the ride, is a saying that seems appropriate.

My buddies fav saying "if you flirt with the line, you are going to cross it"
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post #66 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 04:44 PM
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Re: Are wrecks inevitable?

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lets face it.. we don't buy crotch rockets to drive the speed limit.. we buy them because they are fast, light, fun and they get our adrenalin going!

Everyone crashes.. its inevatible.. I mean even if you are a nancy.. and dont break the road rules.. one day there will be gravel where you don't expect it, or a deer pops out (happened to 2 budz of mine), a bear on the road (again someone I know), some idiot turns left in front of you.. etc

Dress for the crash not the ride, is a saying that seems appropriate.

My buddies fav saying "if you flirt with the line, you are going to cross it"
I disagree that its inevitable. I've been riding since 2008 with a couple track days thrown in there. Most of my riding has been of the knee down variety and I've never crashed. I have avoided gravel, animals, vehicles, bicyclists(hate those guys!), and once, a tree on the road.
99% of all accidents are PREVENTABLE. You can go on a spirited knee dragging ride without pushing the limits of the road
and allowing plenty of options in case you need to take emergency actions. The only time accidents are inevitable is when the bike or the rider's ability is pushed over the limit. This should NEVER happen except on the track.
I've had my share of close calls, but it was almost always a mistake on my part. The only things you can't control are other traffic and wildlife. If there is a crash (accident is a poor word choice as it leads people to believe that most crashes aren't preventable) that doesn't involve one of those two things toy can ascribe it to rider error. Even when road debris is the culprit, you can take that all the way back to rider error. If your going to hit the corners hard its your responsibility to make sure they are clear. If its in an area where debris is common, slow the fuck down and give yourself options. Only push it to the max on the track. Anybody that does otherwise is a fucktard and we will see them in the obits.
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post #67 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:14 PM
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I disagree that its inevitable. I've been riding since 2008 with a couple track days thrown in there. Most of my riding has been of the knee down variety and I've never crashed. I have avoided gravel, animals, vehicles, bicyclists(hate those guys!), and once, a tree on the road.
99% of all accidents are PREVENTABLE.
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Even the best riders in the world make mistakes, I believe that the more you ride the higher your chances of making a mistake and crashing.

I'm sure your 5 years of experience have served you well, but don't ever think your are not vulnerable to making a mistake. I agree with most of what you say, but even with my 15 years of experience including track days,I have made a mistake and crashed.

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post #68 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:26 PM
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yup sorry snow. its not if you crash but when. Every rider goes down at one point. The more that i push the envelope, the more likely I am to wreck. I am perfectly fine with that, that is why I gear up every time. bikes are replaceable, skin is not

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post #69 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:40 PM
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Even the best riders in the world make mistakes, I believe that the more you ride the higher your chances of making a mistake and crashing.

I'm sure your 5 years of experience have served you well, but don't ever think your are not vulnerable to making a mistake. I agree with most of what you say, but even with my 15 years of experience including track days,I have made a mistake and crashed.
Yup.....It's only a matter of time.

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post #70 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:47 PM
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If you're riding on the track regularly and haven't crashed you're just not riding hard enough.

I've been riding SPORT BIKES (not crotch rockets) since 1993. I have crashed twice, both at the track. I've had more close calls on the street than I could ever count. Ride like you're invisible and always cancel your turn signals IF you use them.

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post #71 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:48 PM
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Re: Are wrecks inevitable?

All I meant was that 99% of crashes can be avoided. I know plenty of people that have driven cars their whole life with no crashes. Hate to say it but cruisers too. The only difference between us and them is how hard we push it. The way I like to ride, I probably WILL crash eventually. But I can do everything possible to minimize that risk and its served me well so far. If you study the statistics of crashes (MSF course does this very well...they don't like the term accident) you will see that the crash is almost always rider error. Especially in the sport bike class. Sometimes its this simple-if you go out to hit the canyons and you're not on your game, the biggest thing you can do is recognize that fact and be content to back it off and enjoy a lazy slow ride.
My reasoning is this....Crashes on sport bikes, especially for those of us that like to push it, are PROBABLE, not inevitable. Small difference I know. But its a roll of the dice every time, as opposed to getting on and wondering if THIS is the day I'm gonna go down.
What's the point of trying to be safe if the only question of a crash is when its going to happen? ATGATT is not the only safety measure we as riders can take. Our first goal is to avoid get-offs at all costs. At least on the street....track is a whole different animal.
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post #72 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 05:56 PM
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All I meant was that 99% of crashes can be avoided. I know plenty of people that have driven cars their whole life with no crashes. Hate to say it but cruisers too. The only difference between us and them is how hard we push it. The way I like to ride, I probably WILL crash eventually. But I can do everything possible to minimize that risk and its served me well so far. If you study the statistics of crashes (MSF course does this very well...they don't like the term accident) you will see that the crash is almost always rider error. Especially in the sport bike class. Sometimes its this simple-if you go out to hit the canyons and you're not on your game, the biggest thing you can do is recognize that fact and be content to back it off and enjoy a lazy slow ride.
My reasoning is this....Crashes on sport bikes, especially for those of us that like to push it, are PROBABLE, not inevitable. Small difference I know. But its a roll of the dice every time, as opposed to getting on and wondering if THIS is the day I'm gonna go down.

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Those MSF instructors have really got in your head man. Tell this to the guys who have suffered thrown chains and blown tires, or had dumb asses ride into their ass on group rides or my friend who was going around a hair pin corner on his r1 and was killed by two kids street racing coming around the corner side by side. Ever had a tank slapper and then had to pump pressure back into your brakes with a corner coming up quick? That will make you shit your pants, let me tell ya.

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post #73 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 06:21 PM
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Re: Are wrecks inevitable?

Yes...those situations fall into that 1% of crashes though. It is very unfortunate about your friend but the result probably would have been about the same if he was in his car. Yes the MSF guys got in my head...and it has saved my life more than once. I have suffered my share of slappers and road debris. Most of my near misses have involved other drivers/riders. I will repeat, not all crashes are unavoidable, just most of them. I guarantee you, pull up ten random bike crash stories and you will be hard pressed to find one that could not have been avoided.
Here's my last point ( I guess I ride different then most). I ride hard on the street, especially in the mountains. But I save the limit pushing for the track.
Know your limits, know your roads, and know the people your riding with and make sure your ride is mechanically sound enough to be ridden the way it was designed. I'm pretty much done now...I suppose I just think a little different.
I just choose to believe that if I wreck (on the street) that it was absolutely out of my control, and there was nothing I can do to prevent it. :beer:

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post #74 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 06:47 PM
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I hear ya man. Like someone said before, you got 5 years under your belt and that's great but I think your opinion may continue to evolve once you put 5, 10, 20 more years in it. Sometimes shit just happens. You can try your best but you can't know and prevent everything. You can dissect any crash after the fact and say shoulda woulda coulda but when you're in the moment hauling ass stuff happens real fast and you just gotta react (especially in group rides, now you have 4+ people making different decisions which affect you). I respect your opinion but in the 20 years I've been riding I feel a lot more wrecks just fall into the "nature of the beast" category than 1%.

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post #75 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 07:00 PM
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Re: Are wrecks inevitable?

Lol. Yeah I know 5 years aren't a lot. And I mostly agree with you... we were basically saying the same thing.
You have to admit though...if you look at the statistics, the large majority of crashes are preventable. For the ones that aren't, well, that's a risk we take to enjoy a sport we love. The real risk comes when there is a crash-no cage to protect us.

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post #76 of 168 (permalink) Old 03-17-2013, 07:31 PM
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Lets just admit 100% of everything is preventable, if you analyze it. Somewhere along the way, someone dropped the ball and did something that will cause a failure of some sorts. So in a perfect world, this logic is perfect.

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post #77 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 07:33 AM
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Good Post,

Just have to be safe out there
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post #78 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-08-2013, 01:49 PM
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Everybody has summed it up. You may crash, you may not. The more you ride, the higher the percentage of a crash. Same goes for pushing the envelope. I'm the only rider I know yet to go down. I also know it can happen anytime and more than likely will the more I ride. Been riding since 04' and learn new things all the time. I'm going to end this with a "knock on wood"
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post #79 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 09:58 AM
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Thank you for this. I just shared the link with a few friends that aren't on this forum as they have cbr's.

Walk a mile to avoid a fight, but when one starts, don't back down an inch.
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post #80 of 168 (permalink) Old 04-14-2013, 10:45 AM
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I've been down once hard before and what I tell people is dress like you could go down. Wear all that fancy good looking protective equiptment. It will make a difference. Be mindful of your surroundings and pay attention. But enjoy yourself
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