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  Topic Review (Newest First)
07-07-2019 09:09 PM
JCW Digging up an old thread, but I destroyed my last 2 tires in a day each trying to chase pressures.

I've come to a conclusion (maybe incorrectly) that this is what Moss calls a geometry tear, basically a cold tear but from incorrect geometry/suspension set up instead of primarily a pressure issue.

With all the shimming the rear we do to get the bike to finish a turn, things can go too far where the rear suspension simply is not getting the load transfer it needs. Too slow compression (excessive comp dampening) or too little sag or too much preload can contribute to the problem.
08-11-2017 07:10 PM
MadeInAmerica
Quote:
Originally Posted by jronpaul View Post
Ironically I had my stock suspension set up .. did sag and free sag and my mechanic also insisted I do 33/30 hot.
This is what I got.

I sent this info to Dave moss and he said cold tear.. seems right because prior to this track day I had lower psi.. I've also seen videos that claim leading and trailing edge wear like that indicates a suspension adj needed but I can't remember what.. I think it was rebound

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Talk about wasting a tire....

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08-10-2017 05:44 AM
jronpaul Ironically I had my stock suspension set up .. did sag and free sag and my mechanic also insisted I do 33/30 hot.
This is what I got.

I sent this info to Dave moss and he said cold tear.. seems right because prior to this track day I had lower psi.. I've also seen videos that claim leading and trailing edge wear like that indicates a suspension adj needed but I can't remember what.. I think it was rebound

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08-10-2017 03:36 AM
apiazza
Quote:
Originally Posted by motofreak46 View Post
How's the new SC rear treating you? Curious as well, are you riding these tires on the track only? What kinda of mileage are you getting out of the front tire?

The performance of the OEM SP V1 tires on my 675R dropped considerably after about 1,500 miles.
Haven't run the SC's yet due to my shoulder injury. Mounted and ready to go. Running track only. I have 4 or 5 track days on the front and it probably has a couple left in it if I decide to keep it on. I haven't noticed any more drop than expected.
08-09-2017 11:41 PM
motofreak46 How's the new SC rear treating you? Curious as well, are you riding these tires on the track only? What kinda of mileage are you getting out of the front tire?

The performance of the OEM SP V1 tires on my 675R dropped considerably after about 1,500 miles.
07-03-2017 03:20 AM
apiazza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala View Post
I dont post what tyre brand I didnt like as it does not mean they not good, just that I prefer SC. riding style bike set up etc etc.

I run 110 front and 150 rear so dont have the full range of models in other brands to choose from.

Main reason for guys not running SC here is cost, they are much more expensive than other brands.

I am running at lap record pace on all three tracks, I have given up on cost, tyres are getting eaten, every second quicker on these small tracks dramatically increases wear. I just ordered 8 tyres, just dont look at the bank statements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just back to my moto, tyres are cheaper than time off work.
Nothing wrong with providing an opinion about specific brands/models. If you just simply say everything else doesn't work it isn't really any help to you or anyone else.

I haven't done a thorough study, but Pirelli seems to have some of the better prices in my area for DOT and slick race tires.
07-02-2017 04:56 PM
Bala I dont post what tyre brand I didnt like as it does not mean they not good, just that I prefer SC. riding style bike set up etc etc.

I run 110 front and 150 rear so dont have the full range of models in other brands to choose from.

Main reason for guys not running SC here is cost, they are much more expensive than other brands.

I am running at lap record pace on all three tracks, I have given up on cost, tyres are getting eaten, every second quicker on these small tracks dramatically increases wear. I just ordered 8 tyres, just dont look at the bank statements!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just back to my moto, tyres are cheaper than time off work.
07-02-2017 04:52 PM
Last Week VIR's asphalt loves Pirelli race rubber....grip for days.

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07-02-2017 04:37 PM
apiazza Not that it's a comparison, I've run pilot power 3's, Q3s and the SP's on the track thus far. I HATED the Q3. Felt like everything was a guess. Never received any feedback from them and had very little confidence on them. I took them off after just a couple track days. I liked the PP3 but that was on the ninja 650r but I would guess the balance of feel and grip would follow onto the GSXR. I'm looking forward to trying a DOT race tire. VIR in September will probably be the first chance to test them out.
07-02-2017 04:27 PM
Last Week Agreed, if you like feedback from your tires Pirelli SC'S are for you, if you like a tire you have to keep hot as hell running mad pace that are mute as a mime, then US Dunlop are the choice. Bridgestone don't last here in the SE USA, and Michelins are a good go between. I personally love how Pirelli tires talk. I wouldn't ride anything else.

Next time you have 2 different brand fronts off the rim, angle the tire off center and push down and you notice that you can see the contact patch from the inside. Now do this with a Pirelli SC....you'll notice how much easier it flexes with less force, and the patch is significantly larger. Now move the tire around and watch how easily the patch moves. That's the difference between Pirelli and the competition.

**Disclaimer, this is race rubber used on a race track at race pace.



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07-02-2017 03:06 PM
Bala
Quote:
Originally Posted by apiazza View Post
Valid points, although the rear sliding is what put me where I am now lol.

Like I said before the issue is more me than lack of traction in the tires. I do like knowing I have the same rubber up front and out back. It's just one less variable to have. Confidence is key.
confidence is the critical thing for me. When I started back racing a few years ago I started on Supercorsa SC. I then tried a couple of other brands, one seemed to grip but I couldnt get it look like it was working properly, another brand started good then it just started tearing apart. I came back to supercorsa.

I run the same pressure all year at all 3 tracks i race at, and use warmers. The warmers here may not be technically necessary but I know with these tyres off warmers that I dont have to worry about tyres and can just concentrate of everything else.
07-02-2017 02:37 PM
apiazza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Week View Post
Just about to say the same thing. Go ahead and get the SC1 front, sell the SP. You would rather have a front that sticks under load...I can handle a rear sliding about, but the front is key.

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Valid points, although the rear sliding is what put me where I am now lol.

Like I said before the issue is more me than lack of traction in the tires. I do like knowing I have the same rubber up front and out back. It's just one less variable to have. Confidence is key.
07-02-2017 02:11 PM
Last Week
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala View Post
I have moto that Tyres are cheaper than time off work. I would go with a new SC1 front as well if I were you. My last crash injury was three months off work, I can pay for a set of tyres in 3 days of work.
Just about to say the same thing. Go ahead and get the SC1 front, sell the SP. You would rather have a front that sticks under load...I can handle a rear sliding about, but the front is key.

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07-02-2017 01:32 PM
Bala
Quote:
Originally Posted by apiazza View Post
I'll let you know what they tell me. It will be a little while. I still have another month or so of physical therapy before I can probably get back on the bike. Tires get expensive quick so I'm all about making them last.




Thanks LW. I will be starting out with SP on the front and SC on the rear being the front still has fair amount of life in it. Then switch over to SC on front as well. Maybe the better rubber will help my rear traction, but realistically the issue is me, not the tire.
I have moto that Tyres are cheaper than time off work. I would go with a new SC1 front as well if I were you. My last crash injury was three months off work, I can pay for a set of tyres in 3 days of work.
07-02-2017 09:19 AM
apiazza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bala View Post
The tyre I raced on yesterday has only a about one inch of lip at the very outside, but it was drizzling rain for the last two races so had backed off a little and may have scrubbed off some more.



It would great to get the info from the suspension/tyre experts as to causes, solutions.



not that I can do much about it but the things are not cheap and they dont last long so if anything can be done to extend life then Im all for it.

I'll let you know what they tell me. It will be a little while. I still have another month or so of physical therapy before I can probably get back on the bike. Tires get expensive quick so I'm all about making them last.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Week View Post
The SC's is true race rubber, grip will be phenomenally increased over the SPs. Don't get me wrong the SP is probably hands down the best mountain pass tire out there, but it isn't what you're about to experience with the SC's. Recommended tire pressure with hot warmers are 24R/34F on the east coast as a starting point.

I typically run an SC1 front and SC2 in the rear. It wears 2 rears to every 1 front. If I'm racing sprints it's SC1 front with either SC1 or SC0's as a rear depending if it's over 90.



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Thanks LW. I will be starting out with SP on the front and SC on the rear being the front still has fair amount of life in it. Then switch over to SC on front as well. Maybe the better rubber will help my rear traction, but realistically the issue is me, not the tire.
07-02-2017 07:44 AM
jronpaul I'm still on the street otherwise I'd switch to SC

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07-02-2017 07:31 AM
Last Week
Quote:
Originally Posted by apiazza View Post
I'm interested to see the difference in the SP vs. SC, from the sound if it, they are alike in tread pattern and not much else. Thanks for the input.
The SC's is true race rubber, grip will be phenomenally increased over the SPs. Don't get me wrong the SP is probably hands down the best mountain pass tire out there, but it isn't what you're about to experience with the SC's. Recommended tire pressure with hot warmers are 24R/34F on the east coast as a starting point.

I typically run an SC1 front and SC2 in the rear. It wears 2 rears to every 1 front. If I'm racing sprints it's SC1 front with either SC1 or SC0's as a rear depending if it's over 90.



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07-02-2017 03:37 AM
Bala The tyre I raced on yesterday has only a about one inch of lip at the very outside, but it was drizzling rain for the last two races so had backed off a little and may have scrubbed off some more.

It would great to get the info from the suspension/tyre experts as to causes, solutions.

not that I can do much about it but the things are not cheap and they dont last long so if anything can be done to extend life then Im all for it.
07-01-2017 07:52 AM
jronpaul I'm on a stock 2016 750. Supercorsa sp.
Don't know if this helps

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06-30-2017 05:20 AM
apiazza That raised lip does travel down the tread. You can see it on the bottom right of the last picture. The last track day I couldn't keep heat in the tires before the high side. overcast, low temps, slow pace and then rain, so I no doubt struggled with grip. I'll just leave the geometry as is for now. I still plan to work with the suspension guy at the track being it hasn't been professionally setup since installing valves and shock. I'm interested to see the difference in the SP vs. SC, from the sound if it, they are alike in tread pattern and not much else. Thanks for the input.
06-28-2017 06:01 PM
Bala This is an SC2 from a very coarse track surface.

I get a lot of raised edge where I have the red arrow
06-28-2017 05:47 PM
Bala The SP looks to be listed as a road/track tyre and the SC is basically a race tyre. So you will basically have a totally different tyre to deal with.

I have worn out a lot of SC in the last few years but on small bikes, Aprilia RS125 and CBR250MC22.

On both bikes I have run them as 28R 32F hot off warmers at 3 different tracks.

That probably wont mean much for you. I dont have any suspension adjustments that can be done at the track other than a bit of rear preload, different bikes, rider etc etc.

Honestly looking at your tyre pics your not working the tyre at all, it may be cooling down once off the warmers and you are just getting on throttle hard once the bike is upright again.

I get a lot of raised lip like that but much further out on the tyre. I dont really use the part of the tyre you are concerned about.

I have tried a couple of other brands, with results from not really comfortable with wear to shredding the other. I have had great results with SC, I run a SC1 or SC2 rear depending on which track im at.

As you are starting with a different tyre try it and see what it does.
06-28-2017 09:14 AM
apiazza
Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInAmerica View Post
The lip barely seems raised. I wouldn't be worried about that. You run warmers right?

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It's raised enough to know it isn't normal wear patterns on supercorsa's so I do want to try and get to the bottom of it. Yes I do run warmers.
06-28-2017 06:40 AM
MadeInAmerica The lip barely seems raised. I wouldn't be worried about that. You run warmers right?

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06-28-2017 03:27 AM
apiazza
Quote:
Originally Posted by Racerxxxgsxr1000 View Post
1st Pireli recommendations http://www.trackaddix.com/PirelliRaceTirePressures.pdf



Yours appears to be leading edge indicating to slow a rebound, you'd might try backing off a click or two.
I took three clicks out of the rebound over the last couple track days and haven't seen any change in the leading edge, which is why I am beginning to wonder about the geometry.
06-27-2017 08:22 PM
Racerxxxgsxr1000 1st Pireli recommendations http://www.trackaddix.com/PirelliRaceTirePressures.pdf



Yours appears to be leading edge indicating to slow a rebound, you'd might try backing off a click or two.
06-27-2017 05:36 PM
apiazza

06-27-2017 06:50 AM
Racerxxxgsxr1000 Are the tracks you ride smooth? Rough?
Do the rear push test, see if it comes right back up, springs up hard , or extends slowly.
You might try backing off rebound a little bit.
06-27-2017 06:38 AM
MadeInAmerica I'm no expert either, but pictures would help. My suspension was setup by Evan Steel Performance and I haven't touched it since.

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06-27-2017 05:18 AM
Chuckster Probably just a tuning issue. I'm running 5mm of shim on my 05 600. I don't think the geometry is playing into it, but 6mm might be too much. 4-5 seems to be the sweet spot.
06-27-2017 04:48 AM
apiazza
Supercorsa Tire Wear

I'm no tire or suspension expert so hang with me. I'm running Supercorsa SP's at the moment. I seemed to have had really clean tire wear the first couple track days on them (prior to new suspension). When I upgraded the suspension I started noticing some pulled lip of the tread on the leading edge of the tire. Considering I lost the rear end in 2 of the last 3 track days. I'm beginning to wonder if I'm having some rear grip issues from the setup of the rear shock. The rear tire is getting replaced before the next TD (supercorsa SC V1) and I am hoping to have the suspension setup at the start of the day. I'm wondering if I should do anything before then. I have the ohlins shock extended. I can't remember the number at the moment, I'll have to check my book, but I think it is around 6mm. The forks sit flush with top triple. Could that extra anti-squat be unloading the rear weight bias too much? I forgot to take pictures this morning. I'll update with some tonight when I get home. I've been running 30F/28R hot off the track.

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