[Ghost020]

Decided to get back into biking, 'cause life is too short to put it off any longer. Current plan is a brand new GSX-R750. Was thinking about getting a steering damper for my previous bike, but left it too late. It would have been cheaper than the parts and gear I had to buy after the speed wobble.

My question is, "Is the stock steering damper a good one or should I get an upgrade?" Obviously (seems to me) if I can afford a new bike I can afford a steering damper.

 

[Chango]

The stock damper is perfectly acceptable. I'm still running a stock damper on my 06 750 trackbike. Sure, an aftermarket unit is possibly better, but that doesn't mean it's better enough to make a difference.

 

[QRO]

Decided to get back into biking, 'cause life is too short to put it off any longer. Current plan is a brand new GSX-R750. Was thinking about getting a steering damper for my previous bike, but left it too late. It would have been cheaper than the parts and gear I had to buy after the speed wobble.

My question is, "Is the stock steering damper a good one or should I get an upgrade?" Obviously (seems to me) if I can afford a new bike I can afford a steering damper.

There are some things which may well be 'better' then there are things that are simply digital, they work or they don't.

To translate your question; has anyone had a speed wobble or tank slapper on a GSXR with a steering damper?

AFAIK; no.

So, what else would it do? Play 'Dixie' whenever you have a near miss?

The damper is electronic and, as far as I can make out, is a damper when unpowered and when sent a signal eases up so it makes low speed things lighter.

I would like to think Suzuki have been working for over 30 years on these bikes and they are designed to near perfection now, you don't have to go second guessing the design, that's what you're paying for. If you buy a new one now you're buying the end point of a history of dedicated engineering. You might even argue Suzuki have to stop making them now because they realise they can't make them any better and it's just making all their other products look ineffective.

On the choice you are making, the 750 is, in my thoughts, the ultimate machine. Yes, of course the 1000 has more 'oomph' and is arguably the better machine, but the 750 is already more than can be practically ridden on public roads. If you can afford new, why not. If you do I'd recommend leave it as a pure stock bike, wait for a few k miles before you decide you want to make any changes, there are some things you might want to change and later on realise why they are like that.

Happy purchases!

 

[Ghost020]

Very glad to hear that Suzuki does it right.

 

[MadisonMotorsportUK]

In all honesty, my K1 600 is the first bike I've ever had a damper on, it came with it fitted.

I was always taught that if you need a steering damper then your bike isn't set up properly for what you are asking it to do, usually in the suspension department. I never had one fitted to any of my race bikes.

 

[Ghost020]

My bike wasn't set up properly; it had a 16" front wheel, a pogo air-shock suspension at the rear and no steering damper. Maybe I shouldn't have been asking too much of it, like riding it at high speeds anywhere other than a smooth race track, but pobody's nerfect.

 

[QRO]

In all honesty, my K1 600 is the first bike I've ever had a damper on, it came with it fitted.

I was always taught that if you need a steering damper then your bike isn't set up properly for what you are asking it to do, usually in the suspension department. I never had one fitted to any of my race bikes.

All suspension systems are compromises. It goes with the physics. You tune the castor angle upright for faster but less stable steering, or pivot back the angle for more self-centreing and stability.

If you reduce the castor angle (make upright) for fast steering then the physics says you bring instability down in speed, maybe into the speed range you can actually encounter.

How fast can you push a shopping trolley, with a near 90 degree castor, before the front wheels start flapping? Same thing, same reasons.

Damping is necessary for steep fast steering castor and high speeds.

Instability can be triggered by bumps and changes to the road surface too, not just speed alone.

 

[rv6john]

All suspension systems are compromises. It goes with the physics. You tune the castor angle upright for faster but less stable steering, or pivot back the angle for more self-centreing and stability.

If you reduce the castor angle (make upright) for fast steering then the physics says you bring instability down in speed, maybe into the speed range you can actually encounter.

How fast can you push a shopping trolley, with a near 90 degree castor, before the front wheels start flapping? Same thing, same reasons.

Damping is necessary for steep fast steering castor and high speeds.

Instability can be triggered by bumps and changes to the road surface too, not just speed alone.

^This.
Dampers are to keep a wobble from getting worse. Most wobbles are caused by setting the wheel down crooked and made worse by then holding the bars tight trying to stop it. Leave it alone, the bike will sort it self out if you relax. (I know that can be hard at the moment) The most common advise I hear is to relax and grip the tank with your knees. I'm not sure what the physics are behind that advice but it will stabilize you on the bike and allow you to relax on the bars.

The only places I would get a consistent shake on my 750 was cresting a hill at several tracks while still in a slight turn. 4-5 shakes when the wheel came back on the pavement and that was it, stock damper.

I remember jumping on a friends bike a few months ago that had a Scott damper on it. The first few turns on the sorta tight road were a bit concerning and the bike was slow to turn in. We stopped at the bottom of the hill and I noticed the damping was set to about 7 out of 10 and moving the bars back and forth with any speed produced lots of damping. I set it to 2 and the bike rode well. Before giving it back to the owner I set it to where I found it and told the owner what I found. He said he didn't think it was set that high.

 

[Ghost020]

I had noticed several wobbles going through ruts on the 400 (Highway leading north from Toronto). They dissipated before becoming a problem, scarry, but not a problem, just a warning I should have paid much more attention to. Setting the bike down on it's front wheel with negative rake and trail after flying over an elevated bridge deck didn't dissipate; I was keeping up for about 10 to 20 ossilations, then I remembered my training and let the bars have their way. Very shortly there-after is when the bike went over onto it's right side.

 

[rv6john]

@Ghost020 so it got worse after you relaxed and you crashed?

SPEED WOBBLE BIKER ACCIDENT

Biker in motorcycle accident cause by speed wobble ends up with road rash.

youtube.com

 

[QRO]

I had noticed several wobbles going through ruts on the 400 (Highway leading north from Toronto). They dissipated before becoming a problem, scarry, but not a problem, just a warning I should have paid much more attention to. Setting the bike down on it's front wheel with negative rake and trail after flying over an elevated bridge deck didn't dissipate; I was keeping up for about 10 to 20 ossilations, then I remembered my training and let the bars have their way. Very shortly there-after is when the bike went over onto it's right side.

Did you lean back or forward after letting go?

I think the motivation for the suggestion to loosen grip is to encourage the rider to lean forward for more weight to the front, but I don't think that's right, I think you should want to take weight off the front, not add more.

Or maybe you do put weight on the front, or rear. Meh, can't remember, so I am sure I will get it wrong myself if I ever have that, hope not.

My view is that you want to take weight off the front wheel when it gets into a wobble, not add more. The problem is that snapping off the throttle, especially on a GSXR which has a lot of engine braking, would make that worse. (If it's true, not really sure!! 😬 )

I think I would let go, TBH, and sit up, grip the tank with my knees (and get ready to jump!! ) because wind resistance would help slow the bike more than remaining tucked (which I probably would be at speed).

I hope that never happens to me, I am sure to screw it up!

 

[QRO]

PS, if you have been previously ejected by a tank slapper then I am not at all surprised and no one can doubt the sincerity of your question!

I'm confident a new 750 will be set up right and that, and the damper, will see you safe. It's the other idiots on the road that will be a bigger concern for you. Remember to assume you are invisible to all other road users (except the Police!) because you probably are.

 

[Mathieu9836]

2011 GSXR 750 owner here, what i did to my damper was replace the oil with thicker oil, did a little difference but no much. The bigger improvement is to get the ECU flashed and change the damper behavior by increasing the duty cycle it receive a certain speed. If my memory is good, until you reach 80kp/h (around 50mp/h) the damper receive 0% duty cycle at stock setting, valve is basicaly open. My tuner added an extra 15% all around and i never noticed anything wrong since then BUT i did a lot a suspension tuning since then.

 

[QRO]

I wouldn't have thought there was much risk of speed wobble at less than 50?

I have considered replacing the oil. What did you use? I was going to wait until I did the front fork job and I got some fork oil.

 

[Mathieu9836]

I wouldn't have thought there was much risk of speed wobble at less than 50?

I have considered replacing the oil. What did you use? I was going to wait until I did the front fork job and I got some fork oil.

I used 15W fork oil, had some on hand left off from my dirt bike years.
Most of my wobble issues was resolved from suspension maintenance and tuning, the previous owner had a blown fork seal and didnt told me. So a lot of oil was missing in one of the fork legs which almost killed me....

 

[Todd_Sails]

@Ghost020 so it got worse after you relaxed and you crashed?

SPEED WOBBLE BIKER ACCIDENT

Biker in motorcycle accident cause by speed wobble ends up with road rash.

youtube.com

Yea, but that's not a real motorcycle in that video. Seen it before too LOL

 

[QRO]

Yea, but that's not a real motorcycle in that video. Seen it before too LOL

That is naaasty. Wear gear. I'd hate to imagine the raw meat that the guy's arm turned in to.

There is a point where the castor is too low an angle that the radius of the tyre becomes important. As the tyre flip flops on to the side, the wheel spins up (smaller circumference on the edges), then down then up and it can be just down to the tyre not suiting the bike.

Call me an old codger of a biker but I tend to stick to stock on the assumption that the guys that designed it have an idea. The GSXR design team came out of an amateur race team at Suzuki's factory, so even more kudos to them for that I think.

 

[Ghost020]

@Ghost020 so it got worse after you relaxed and you crashed?

SPEED WOBBLE BIKER ACCIDENT

Biker in motorcycle accident cause by speed wobble ends up with road rash.

youtube.com

Yes, for the first couple of seconds, it wasn't getting any better, but it wasn't getting any worse either and I had plenty of straight road in front of me. As soon as I stopped behaving like a steering damper (and followed the recommended approach) it went left-righter-lefter- down on the right side. Wobble was much faster than seen in the video too.

 

[Ghost020]

Did you lean back or forward after letting go?

I think the motivation for the suggestion to loosen grip is to encourage the rider to lean forward for more weight to the front, but I don't think that's right, I think you should want to take weight off the front, not add more.

Or maybe you do put weight on the front, or rear. Meh, can't remember, so I am sure I will get it wrong myself if I ever have that, hope not.

My view is that you want to take weight off the front wheel when it gets into a wobble, not add more. The problem is that snapping off the throttle, especially on a GSXR which has a lot of engine braking, would make that worse. (If it's true, not really sure!! 😬 )

I think I would let go, TBH, and sit up, grip the tank with my knees (and get ready to jump!! ) because wind resistance would help slow the bike more than remaining tucked (which I probably would be at speed).

I hope that never happens to me, I am sure to screw it up!

No. I kept my torso "in the cockpit" and my feet on the pegs and squeesed the bike with my knees the whole time, until it was time to get my leg out from between the bike and that giant grindstone we call Earth. Then it was all I could do to do a hand stand on the bars to keep the road from biting my legs. That worked until a pothole took out the right handle bar (note: don't put your hand down when that happens).

 

[VIzuki]

Decided to get back into biking, 'cause life is too short to put it off any longer. Current plan is a brand new GSX-R750. Was thinking about getting a steering damper for my previous bike, but left it too late. It would have been cheaper than the parts and gear I had to buy after the speed wobble.

My question is, "Is the stock steering damper a good one or should I get an upgrade?" Obviously (seems to me) if I can afford a new bike I can afford a steering damper.

stock does a good job. The reason folks get speed wobbles is the front end barely touch ground during a WOT. And yes it’s so post to be loose not stiff. Before you think it’s broken. Changing oil every few years is ideal but not needed.