[QRO]

Last weekend I was trying to get home quickly, and must have inexactly inserted my ear plugs.

Given a fast bike, a low screen (I have improved mine slightly and it is considerably quieter when tucked, but still) and a fast ride, please don't do 'this' ...

A short time after I started, the left side seemed nosier than the right. At first I put it down to wind direction, it was very gusty that day, so combined wind speed would likely have been 3 digits (maybe even if the wind was behind me! ), and after a while I was less sure about that, then it seemed a bit quieter. But this is the risk of auditory injury, it'll creep up on you.

Anyway, simple fact is I should have stopped when it didn't seem quite right. The ear plug had partially ejected itself.

Result is that I appear to have done some injury to my left ear. I've always had a bit of tinnitus in it, at times badly so the ear is already a bit crap, but it had got better. Now it is bad again. It did seem to improve during the week and I think it will get better again over time (I have to believe that for optimism's sake), it has before, but has not improved this weekend. I have some fluid in it, so. meh, could be a host of reasons.

Anyway, there it is. If you think your earbuds are not performing, maybe they have come out, stop and check.

It has prompted me to look further at ear protection, and I have ordered a new helmet, and will try out putting ear defender pads (the disposable bits) inside the helmet.

For buds, I am now looking at custom made ones. Any observations on that would be welcome. I know I can get 'make your own' type that you mould yourself and it sets (says 24dB) for £16, or custom made ones (30dB) with a tailored fitting session for £70. Might well try both. I'll also try different ear buds see if they are more secure (the green 3M 39dB ones).

 

[Yellow Submarine]

I have tinitis in both ears. My right ear is a bit worse than my left but I have a constant ringing in both ears. I worked in heavy diesel repair for a couple of decades, on and very near airfields all around the world.

Between the jet noise (ever stand on a taxiway while an old school C-5a/b taxis by?) and the Diesel engines (6V52 “screammin jimmys”) the VA awarded me 20% disability for my loss of hearing.

My flying career most likely didn’t do my hearing any favors either….nor did going to rock concerts or riding loud motorcycles sans any hearing protection. Just about the time I started my flying career, I started wearing hearing protection under my helmet when I rode. Around 2001 or so, or about 21 years now.

I can say from experience that wind noise is far more damaging than any exhaust noise. My plugs of choice are Howard Leight Max Lites. They can be found on Amazon for not a great deal of money. I get them by the box of 200 pairs or half that if that’s all I can find.

These were recommended to me by an audiology doctor during an OSHA visit to a shop I worked in. I’ve worn them specifically since then. I highly recommend them from that experience…but inserting ANY ear plugs correctly is essential, and 95% of people I see using them DO NOT.

 

[billyka21]

I think it is the high frequencies of the air noise that cause the damage.I have problem too,when i sit in a quiet room my right ear is "whistling"..

 

[QRO]

Those "Howard Leight Max Lites" look good value. I have found a rating published for them of 34dB, and they look very similar to the ones I am using already.

The 3M greens turned up already (39dB rated) and I tried a ride yesterday, TBH feel and sound pretty much the same as the ones I have, but the foam is a bit more dense so I suppose they would be a bit better if analysed precisely.

I was in two minds whether to go out actually, or call it a day for this season, as it'll be good to give my ears a rest and heal, even low level air-flow noise will continue to aggravate I think. I don't think it was a problem yesterday, not many miles at highway speeds, but will park up for the season soon.

I'm not going to ride this bike through winter, I have virtually destroyed bikes doing that in the past, we have salt put on the roads here and of course rain dirt gets everywhere.

Yesterday was very poor too for road dirt, it had been raining earlier and now there is a lot of mud and road debris on the machine. I might take it out in a heavy downpour to wash that off before giving it a 'hibernation' clean. I'm not so proud to refuse a 'fair weather biker' title, yep, see no reason not to be that when I have a car! I took the FJ through a couple of winters and it was cosmetically very damaging to the bike.

 

[Yellow Submarine]

It is my understanding that your ears don’t “heal” from the noise damage to them. That is direct from a doctor of audiology.

The shop where I worked had the worst levels of hearing loss on the entire installation where I work.

Because of that, our environmental health folks (health & safety to others) visited us on a regular basis. We would all get audiology appointments regularly as well.

I spent quite a lot of time with the audiologist which is where I got this little nugget of information. I was told that once your hearing is damaged, it does not recover.

What I like about the Max Lite plugs is they’re soft and don’t irritate my ears. The yellow “Earo’s” that are standard issue around the airfield have a tendency to make the skin in my ear canal raw.

The audiologist I saw made note of this and suggested the Max Lites for that reason. I like them, they’re very comfortable and on a long ride they’re pretty much “invisible”. I completely forget I even have them in.

 

[QRO]

It is my understanding that your ears don’t “heal” from the noise damage to them. That is direct from a doctor of audiology.

The shop where I worked had the worst levels of hearing loss on the entire installation where I work.

Because of that, our environmental health folks (health & safety to others) visited us on a regular basis. We would all get audiology appointments regularly as well.

I spent quite a lot of time with the audiologist which is where I got this little nugget of information. I was told that once your hearing is damaged, it does not recover.

What I like about the Max Lite plugs is they’re soft and don’t irritate my ears. The yellow “Earo’s” that are standard issue around the airfield have a tendency to make the skin in my ear canal raw.

The audiologist I saw made note of this and suggested the Max Lites for that reason. I like them, they’re very comfortable and on a long ride they’re pretty much “invisible”. I completely forget I even have them in.

I'm sure your audiologist is correct in practice. I think it also depends on what is damaged and how.

I very much doubt that our ears are grown when children and experience zero further development or repair, not sure they'd last very long if that were true. Even our bones have to be constantly repaired and end up being replaced over time.

If the 'hair cells' die off then I think that's a done deal on damage, but other stuff like wear and tear on the little bones, I don't know if that repairs itself.

Since last week I have had an excess of watery fluid in my ear, so clearly the body is trying to do something about it. The hearing itself seems subjectively slightly better now I think, but the tinnitus remains.

I've read that with the sort of stress I put my ear through on that ride, namely in the 'hour' range and was probably (if I read charts right) in the upper 80's to 90 dB judging from the result, there is then a period of some recovery. Doctors I have spoken with in the past are in the 'shrug shoulders' range of real understanding.

What they actually say, and I think is the basic problem, is that they can't go rummaging in the ear looking for problems to repair and to figure it out, it is all far too delicate in there. So I guess it's not a particularly well studied subject, beyond looking at dead people's ears.

Tinnitus issues can be deduced from physiology, this is a text I found when looking around on the subject, and goes to explain why my tinnitus went away after a few years but is back after this ride. It's the new stimulations to my hair cells that are 'novel' and after a while my brain will get used to them and disregard those stimulations. Mind you, I have never found my tinnitus to go away completely.

Pathophysiology of Tinnitus | Elite Audiology Services

www.eliteaudiologyservices.com

I guess this is what's happened in your ear, @Yellow Submarine.

"Electron micrograph of a portion of the spiral curve of the human cochlea revealing a total obliteration of the outer hair cells and their accompanying nerve fibers following occupational noise exposure. "

I guess having tinnitus means the hair cells are still there else I'd not have it. So I guess, that 'sounds' ( ) like it'll improve.

 

[Yellow Submarine]

Thing is, your ears, eyes & nose are all connected a bit. IE sinus drainage can leak out through the ear or eye/s. Fluid build up therefore may be more of that and less of the body trying to repair some form of damage.

Personally, I’ve had sinus issues ever since I can remember. The drainage through my eyes & ears also. As far as I know, tinnitus will never go away. That’s the sign of permanent damage. Again, personally; I’ve found that when my sinuses don’t bother me, my tinnitus is reduced. Also, when they’re draining heavily my tinnitus is worse, sometimes far worse and almost unbearable.

Another thing I’ve noticed is that prolonged use of Naproxen aggravates my tinnitus similarly. To the point the ringing is so loud and constant I have to put in ear plugs and lay down. Just some caveats to consider. Everyone will have different levels and frequency of tinnitus. Things that increase the level also will vary. I’ve “heard” alcohol aggravates tinnitus, but never experienced it myself…..but been in plenty of bars where I’ve witnessed it.

🤣

 

[QRO]

Is that the sort of tinnitus that starts talking to you?

Yeah, I think there are common experiences and then there are individual experiences. In my case, the tinnitus now is as bad as it has been in the more distant past, but the last year has been very easy on my ears and it 'had' died down a bit. meh. Oh well, will now have to have another quiet year.

I get bad migraines and this has played some sort of integrated issue in the past, along with a bit of 'Meniere's' condition. Fortunately, never had sinus issues, nor wax nor such, the fluid in the left ear was something I have had in the past too, but it's always been the left ear with a few problems. In fact, now that I think about it, it was about a year ago I was getting quite a lot of fluid in the ear over night for a few months, and it cleared up much the same time as the tinnitus (which I had had for years). Just an anecdote, may or may not be related, only just realised that co-incidence talking about it.

 

[QRO]

Anyway, on to more 'bike-specific' related things, I have also been looking at improving my crash helmet. I mean, I think it is OK, but it was a cheaper one and I am sure there are better.

I have seen much is made of the Schuberth C3 Pro as the quietest, but Schuberth themselves say their C4 is quieter, and that seems to have a wider visor view, designed for sports riding, so they say. So I am looking that that.

Also seen the 'Caberg Levo', looks a very similar design to the C4.

Be interested to hear if anyone has taken a look at these, with an opinion on them.

 

[Yellow Submarine]

Schuberth has never been high on my list of helmets. Only because I’ve tried a few on (going back a number of years to be fair) and found their helmets don’t fit my particular head shape well.

There an old saying (well, not really old) that goes “you either have a Shoei head or an Arai head” I definitely have an Arai head.

Shoei trends towards a more round shape while Arai is more oval. To be fair, Arai has several different oval shapes and any one of them will fit around 99% of the population. That is, most of us fit into one of the 3-4 shell shapes.

Of all the other helmet makers in the world, Only Arai does this. LS2 follows a similar convention but only does 2 different shell shapes.

ICON sorta does this, just not with a formal identification system like Arai. I value a great fit over the helmet itself being quiet….with ear plugs in, all the helmets I own are quiet.

Just so we’re comparing apples, I currently ride with 4 different brands, for a total of 6 helmets in my rotation. 2 KYTs, 2 X-Lites a Scorpion and a Kabuto. The Scorpion is pretty well on its way out. It’s 6 years old now and will be retired when it reaches 7. The Kabuto will also be retired next year even though it did not get much wear the 1st 2-3 years I owned it.

Might replace them both with new Kabutos or maybe another X-Lite or 2. Undecided on that. I’ve had a look at a Caberg recently and really liked the look of it. Specs looked good too. Just don’t know how it will fit my dome. My point I guess is, don’t worry about the brand so much as how well the helmet fits.

The point I made before though, is proper insertion of the ear plug is more important than simply wearing them. See video below:

 

[QRO]

Yes, I have been experimenting with fitting ear plugs since my recent 'failure'. I've never found them to be ideal, I have quite a flat, oval shaped ear hole, so have been experimenting with different techniques.

I guess I might be better with the Schuberth then as I always had Shoei years ago... round head? You know, I half remember that is what people used to say back then. Arai didn't fit, so it was Shoei for me!

I particularly miss the little 'flip up' feature on Shoei's that would tip the visor up a few mm which really works well to reduce condensation. I still reach for it out of instinct sometimes, and that's an astonishing 25 years ago!

I think I need to find some place with a big range, but I did just that a while back and didn't find any that worked well for me.. Took a punt on line with some cheap ones, first one was a bit too tight, OK as a spare, just bought the next size up and all good. I gave my son the first helmet and he says it is slightly too big for him. I guess I am the bighead of the family.

 

[QRO]

Here is another thing to mention, if anyone else is going through the same thought process.

So the helmet I got now is a flip-up. Those used to be super-expensive in my day, but now quite normal. I read somewhere that fixed face are quieter than flip-up, so I tried a fixed face recently and it was noisier!

Then I read another article saying flip-ups are much quieter, and it gave a reason too because they can be equipped with a lot more padding around the back of the neck, because you can put the helmet on with the flip open, which would not be possible with so much padding in a fixed face. And looking at these more expensive helmets (not so much my cheap one) I can see a lot more neck padding on them, so I think that probably makes sense.

I'll look at the brands you mention, not sure they are common names here in UK.

 

[Yellow Submarine]

Likely only the X-Lite would be. KYT…maybe but more likely not. Same for Kabuto. Kabuto at least can be had from Australia. KYT is just getting started here in the US. I “think” only common in Italy as far as the EU goes. My bad….forgot the whole Brexit thing. 😁

I’ve seen X-Lite on several UK sites, DemonTweeks for one….I forget the name of the other but it’s the same site I posted about where I got my Held mesh pants. Likely that Padgett’s has them too. Cheers.

 

[Daedalus64]

I’ve seen X-Lite on several UK sites, DemonTweeks for one….I forget the name of the other but it’s the same site I posted about where I got my Held mesh pants. Likely that Padgett’s has them too. Cheers.

X-lite helmets are available in SBS.

QRO since you're also UK based where were you thinking about getting some moulded? I could do with going down a similar route I think. I do use some earplugs similar to the Howard Leight ones but they're not always the best fit and have in the past worked themselves loose after a while.

 

[QRO]

Do you mean moulded ear plugs? Yes, but can't get through to anyone to arrange that.

There are DIY moulded at a rated 24dB, for ~£16, suspect I will screw up trying to make those as my ear hole is quite closed up.

Then there is 'ultimate ear' at 30dB for £70. I can't get through to the local 'specsaver' to discover whatever they offer.

I'd be interested to hear any observations or experience on that.

You don't mean moulded helmets, do you? Not sure that is a 'thing', though might not be a bad idea! I wonder if there is something soft, squidgy and silicone-ey that you can put over your ear 'in' the helmet? Like ... errrr... breast implants ( ) or something!

 

[Daedalus64]

Haha yeah, sorry should have been more specific, I was referring to the earplugs! I'll ask my friend 're specsavers as with his job he is required to have frequent hearing tests (works in IT replacing hardware in data centres). He might have an idea about that, but I think he generally wears the soft throwaway ones or big 3M "over ear" defenders. What brand are the DIY ones? Worth a punt at £16

I keep seeing a lot of adverts for the "eggz" but I have no idea if they are any good. I work at a joinery company, so have access to the single use throw away ones, both the soft squeezable ones and the ones with the plastic "rod" to hold them in place, although I've never found the latter to be comfortable.

I sometimes go clay pigeon shooting with my friend (same one as above), and he has a pair of earplugs similar to the 3M Peltor. They are ANC but obviously that means they are a bit bulkier so not really ideal for under a helmet. I do have a pair of bluetooth earbuds which just about fit under the helmet so if anything existed with ANC that was smaller it might be worth looking into, although I appreciate that PNC is cheaper and likely more comfortable.

A moulded helmet is an interesting concept. My snowboard boots have a mouldable liner, which is either done using boot moulders that warm it up (usually really hot, or can be done with a hair dryer 🤣) and then you put your feet in whilst they cool, or after a long period of wearing them they slowly soften and mould to your feet. Almost like memory foam but they retain their shape.

 

[Yellow Submarine]

Only company I know of that does a “moulded” helmet is Bell. They do a laser scan of your dome and then construct the liner based on that. It is truly custom fit to you and would fit no one else.

IIRC, the scan itself was free. If you were to order a helmet based on that scan from Bell, it would set you back $1500 US. At least that’s what I was quoted back when I had the scan done at Laguna Seca over the WSBK US Round there. That was several years back….I think the price is currently more like $17-1800 US.

If your foam ear plugs are working their way out, watch the video I posted. I’d highly suspect that you’ve not installed them correctly. Using the method shown in the video, I’ve never come close to having one work loose, much less loose enough to come out.

 

[Daedalus64]

Yeah I don't think the consensus was for a moulded helmet, I don't currently ride enough to require a custom made one, and my current one is quite comfortable.

I watched the video, looking at it I'm not sure I push them in far enough, despite them usually working. The only time one side worked itself free was when I was in a bit of a hurry and yeah, not installed properly. I'd like to try a few different types, like QRO mentioned and see which ones are most comfortable and work the best. I don't currently have audio/intercom in the helmet but it something I'm looking to add (sometimes I ride with earphones in) so would like to be able to hear music or talking whilst wearing the plugs.

 

[Yellow Submarine]

I don’t do the intercom or music thing when I ride. I don’t want anyone else’s voice inside my helmet. I enjoy the solace. I’ve done long rides on the Interstate (motorway) with music on while wearing plugs and the experience was just kinda meh.

It wasn’t too bad, the music helped the time go by but it was such a pain in the a$$ to get everything set up that I’ve not done it again. A blue tooth set up would likely be a more seamless experience but for the riding I do, I’d use it like once every 5 years.

I dunno how the plugs would work with an intercom system. Those have come a long way since I rode with a Nady system. It was badly affected by the wind and we had to limit communication to just getting one another’s attention.

I don’t hear that well anyway and with my helmet on and plugs in I cannot hear voices (except the ones in my head) well when people talk to me. Traffic sounds around me are not a problem. I suppose if you used a slightly less efficient plug voices might be clearer….but if your hearing isn’t as damaged as mine is, you could likely hear voices just fine.

 

[Daedalus64]

I only tend to listen to music if I'm doing longer journeys, not yet used an intercom but will probably fit something bluetooth that allows me to, and integrates better into the helmet. I have to admit I've used music as a way of blocking out wind noise, but it does mean it has to be quite loud, which probably won't help in the long run. I agree it is awkward, my bluetooth earbuds aren't the best fit with a helmet on, and cable pair of earphones means my phone is in a pocket and a pain to pause/change tracks or volume (first world problems eh!)

My friend has a cheap kit and says on full volume, with earplugs in like the above ones, he can hear it still, although I've not experienced it. I guess if the wind noise is muted anyway, but there is music it should be a bit clearer being close to your ear, whilst still allowing better protection than it being super loud. He does have a Shoei helmet which he claims is really good on noise though, which probably helps.