[humanpaste]

Think of it kinda like this. You start out with a bag full of luck and an empty bag of experience. Trick is to fill the bag of experience before the bag of luck is empty.

i like this.

if you push your bike it will eventually push back. you better learn quick or go home broke.

 

[MarkoGSXR]

Did a discussion on the internet about motorcycle riding really devolve into a pissing contest about college educations? LMAO, what did I miss here? :Laughing:

 

[SRAD600]

Problem solved. Back on topic.

 

[MarkoGSXR]

This is a funny debate after all isn't it? Are wrecks inevitable? For some riders, absolutely, for others, not at all (but still happen). I've known many riders who I see ride and I think, "yup, only a matter of time before he wads that bike up". And then I know other riders who could probably Houdini their way out of what looks like a sure fire crash. It just is what it is.

The one thing I know is I've been riding on the street for 20 years and haven't crashed yet (knocking on wood) but I've had many really close calls. One time I was hauling ass through Red Rock Canyon in Las Vegas like I had done thousands of times before. There was a bicyclist truckin along on the right side of the road and just as I was going by him he inexplicably decided to switch to the left side of the road, crossing directly in front of my path. I locked up the brakes and leaned hard to the right and I missed his rear tire by what must have been a millimeter. I almost shat myself. If I would have hit him I probably would have killed him. Someone was watching out for both of us that day.

On the other side of the coin I was heavy into riding track days for about 5 years. I did about one a month during that time period. I crashed twice. Once really hard, bike cartwheeled off into the desert. It was a sad sight to see as I was sliding across the track on my back...

 

[6Gears1Speed]

If you believe something WILL happen then it most likely will at some point. That's because somehow you act in a way that increases the chances of it happening. You increase risk.

If you know something CAN happen but give it due respect and recognize internal and external limits then it may not ever happen. You mitigate risk.

This goes for most anything not just bikes.

 

[Winchester Boy]

When I am on the street I never ride anywhere near my limit. I *always* have some braking, acceleration, or lean angle in reserve to get me out of potential trouble.

This is just an excellent statement.
I crashed last year because I didn't do this. I was lucky to ride away but I could have went off the mountain.

Thank you PS.

 

[kayno1987]

2 types

There are 2 types of riders, those who have been down and those who are going down. You just have to be prepared and understand the risks.

 

[JayDiggles]

Good info bud, crazy how many people got irritated you posted a safety post in the beginners section.

Sadly most people don't ride safe at all.

 

[The Wraith]

Never ride past your ability, ride your ride. Stay on a smaller cc bike. Will only make you a badass on a leader bike later.

 

[gggsxr000]

It is hard to be not excited in this bike but never do stupid things, I met people who ride ask their life without accident so title might be n/a to those people.

 

[L5750]

motorcycles and danger are bed partners...

 

[k41000]

My old man rode for 20 years and never went down. Think he slipped a foot once at a gas station and had to set it down but that doesn't count. I on the other hand, and all my friends have been down at least once. I actually hit an unmarked patch of road construction in the middle of on on ramp full lean... About a 8 inch deep by foot wide hole they had dug... Game over. Sometimes shit just happens.

 

[yoshix1up]

Best breakdown I've read. You hit every point I can think of and then some.

 

[Todd_Sails]

Nice thread, started in '11 IIRC?

'cept the part about the call ledge edjumication part :wink

However, based on the way I interpreted some of the this,
that the more hours logged in, the more likely a crash?
* How about the more hours logged, statistically speaking, you are LESS likely to crash.
Stay with me here a minute-
So lets say in someones hours logged, they have some sort of crash, x / hrs;
I propose that the more you ride, statistically speaking, you are less likely to crash- Vs. the hours you have logged riding.

I have been riding street bikes since I was able to get my street license on a 100cc motorcycle at age 15 yrs old, in TX- in 1975 ( I know, most of you weren't even a twinkle in someones eye yet, much less born, and that's OK).- yep 40+yrs ( did take about a 15yr hiatus without owning a bike in there)

So, over many bikes, both owned and ridden, I have yet to have a crash, or be 'hit' on any of my streetbikes. Have I 'pushed' it on highway turns? You bet I have.
Am I lucky? maybe, I'd like to think of it as I'm a 'defensive' driver, especially on my bike (motorcycle)
Am I invincible? 'course not
Am I 'do' for a crash? I really feel the more hours I log (within reason), the less likely I am to crash.
* see my discussion above about crash vs. hours logged

Now, when I was riding and racing street bicycles- as a licensed USCF racer-
well there, THAT's a whole 'nother story!
One major hit once broadside in city riding- I was 'out' for a short time, of my body that is; then back in, and in a severe coma (Glascow Coma Scale #3) for 11 days- lots of rehab, etc. That was in 1986.
Again- not on my motorcycle
I was not wearing a 'bicycle' helmit at the time- I would have walked away- 'in' my body.

 

[Todd_Sails]

I am going to skip all the "billy badass" internet tough guy stuff and go right to the original subject.

I am a perfect case study in the subject and here is why:

I have been riding since 1985 and have logged several hundred thousand miles on motorcycles. That's 29 years for the mathematically challenged. I have never crashed on the street.

I have been racing now since 2010, im on my 5th season. I have crashed while on the track somewhere around 8 or 9 times.

This alone should give you an indicator of how this thing works.

When I am on the street I never ride anywhere near my limit. I *always* have some braking, acceleration, or lean angle in reserve to get me out of potential trouble.

Also, I am hyper-aware on the streets. Not only do I watch for cars, road debris, etc but I also make sure not to put myself in a position of potential danger. I check for blind spots. I watch the front wheels of cars that I am riding alongside to see if they begin drifting or changing lanes, etc.

I assume that every other vehicle out on the road is trying to kill me. The result is a whole lot of close calls and no crashes on the street.

On the racetrack it is my job to push the limits. Sometimes you go over and there isnt much you can do at that point. As someone said, crashing is a part of the sport HOWEVER that sport is RACING, not riding on the streets.

Is crashing on the streets 100% avoidable? Hell no. There will always be that freak accident that comes out of nowhere. What *is* possible is to drastically mitigate the risk of crashing by keen observation and a healthy respect for your bike and your own skills.

I've now read thru most of this, and ^^ this poster has the right attitude IMHO.

Others threads that say things like:
'I crashed 'cause it was dark'
or, 'a car was stopped over a hill, so I rear ended them'
are COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE accidents. It's too bad that people that post statements like this-
have no real clue that these things ARE avoidable. And NO, I don't mean, don't ride!
If it's too dark, slow down, be more aware and careful.
If you can't see over a hill, make DAMN SURE you'll be able to stop if something's in the road, etc., etc.

 

[Gsxr-5043]

very informative post. Thanks!

 

[Todd_Sails]

Wow, I just read this last page again, and forgot all about my posts on this thread.

Still stand behind what I posted.

Good day

 

[jlaudiofan1911]

Thanks, good food for thought in the OP.

I'm a new rider, but I've been driving for a long time. To and from work, for work, car, truck, truck and trailer, big panel trucks.... Drivers are stupid. I know that if someone can try and sideswipe me in a white 3/4 ton diesel truck, they sure as hell aren't going to see me on a motorcycle.

Driving a large delivery truck taught me to constantly glance at the side mirrors to know what's going on around me. And I was was always amazed at how people want to try and drive up under the truck.

I consider myself a decent driver, and after taking the MSF course I've noticed my driving habits changing. It was like a refresher course in driving. I realized that my attitude when driving a 4 wheel is that I am invisible. Because drivers are stupid.


I don't want to be a stupid rider. I've talked to my MSF instructor about helping out with range days, I figure being around new riders and hearing the course material multiple times will really drive home the safety of riding.

Stay safe out here!

 

[rv6john]

Thanks, good food for thought in the OP.

I'm a new rider, but I've been driving for a long time. To and from work, for work, car, truck, truck and trailer, big panel trucks.... Drivers are stupid. I know that if someone can try and sideswipe me in a white 3/4 ton diesel truck, they sure as hell aren't going to see me on a motorcycle.

Driving a large delivery truck taught me to constantly glance at the side mirrors to know what's going on around me. And I was was always amazed at how people want to try and drive up under the truck.

I consider myself a decent driver, and after taking the MSF course I've noticed my driving habits changing. It was like a refresher course in driving. I realized that my attitude when driving a 4 wheel is that I am invisible. Because drivers are stupid.


I don't want to be a stupid rider. I've talked to my MSF instructor about helping out with range days, I figure being around new riders and hearing the course material multiple times will really drive home the safety of riding.

Stay safe out here!

Good attitude! I've heard from many fellow riders that riding a motorcycle makes you a better driver. My guess is we look farther ahead and ride/drive more defensively.

From what I've read, most motorcycle accidents are single vehicle and those are mostly in a turn. Years of driving helped me little with cornering a bike. To me it is a separate, learned skill that results in muscle memory from experience and practice.

Of the two vehicle accidents, the most common are cars violating the right of way of the bike. The highest number there are cars making a left turn in front of the bike. I think this has happened to at least 10 riders in my local groups this season, one of them fatal.

I just had a friend hit last week while he was stopped at a stop sign. The driver was turning left "and didn't see him". If he didn't start pushing backwards the guy would have it him mid bike. As it was, he hit the front forks.

The "I didn't see him" seems to be the most common first words of the drivers. There has been lot's written about a person being able to see something but not "seeing" it. (see, interpret and act).

 

[Gixfix]

Wrecks were inevitable for me. I'm on my fourth streetbike and i've been in wrecks with the previous three bikes. All were determined to be the other motorist's fault and they all said they didn't see or hear me. I'm always stunned by this because I had headlight modulators in two of those wrecks and had loud aftermarket exhausts also. I've always worn reflective gear and have mostly always followed many of the post's safety recommendations. A surprising number of folks just don't look for us and with the damn cellphones, we are even more SOL...

That said, I love riding. Is it worth it all? Hell yeah!