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Clutch plates, are these good or bad?

11K views 30 replies 7 participants last post by  EVL 750 
#1 · (Edited)
This is on my 2005 GSXR 600.

So I’m having issues with acceleration and the clutch. At least I’ve narrowed it down to the clutch. Fuel pump was tested and flowing properly, injectors are good to go, tps is in correct position, all fuses are good, throttle bodies have been cleaned, throttle snaps back when letting go, replaced rotors and brake pads and disassembled and cleaned the pistons and calipers, bled the lines with fresh fluid, new battery and plugs.

I get to the clutch, sometimes the rpms will shoot up without accelerating while riding and even then it feels like I’m at 10-12 rpms even though I’m at 4-5k and feels like the bike is accelerating slowly, but then randomly will get freed up and accelerate quickly for a short period of time.

I tried adjusting the clutch cable properly, not just at the lever and still had changes. Bike will lunge forward when putting in first gear. On the stand, it will roll the rear tire under power in 1st gear if the lever is held down or not. Makes a thump sound going into 1st as well.

Then I took a look at my clutch plates and they were all bone dry except for the last 4 plates, which were partially wet.

I’m not sure if these plates look bad or not. Looking for guidance or input on anything I may be missing or needs checked that I may not know about that causes the issues I’m having. Thanks in advance!
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#2 · (Edited)
ill be honest man i just took my plates out recently and the had a little more friction and i was told they were okay i was told its almost like gauging brake pads just kind of look at how much friction there is? but thats weird maybe it being low on oil made some stick?? i dont know just throwing out ideas did you do a full oil swap and see if it helped? given the fact it seems you checked everything else
 
#4 ·
The fibers "look" thin to me in the pictures but there is a minimum thickness spec in the service manual. The steels don't show any bluing or scoring but a thickness check is the key also.

A slipping clutch is your problem from what you describe, if you did the adjustment correctly per the service manual and it still slipped, replacing at least the fibers is the next step.

Suzuki sells a complete kit with steels and fibers for about $130 online. Considering the age of the bike and that you have it all apart, just put a new kit in.
 
#5 ·
To me the plates look good, and all but the end plates are the same so if its a middle (#7 plates from the diagram below) just swap it around with one of the other middles. If the rear wheel wants to move when you put it in 1st/on the stand then it sounds like your clutch shaft/cables are not adjusted correctly (the first spot being at the clutch release adjuster #35)

Once that is adjusted then the cable entry on top of that housing, then at the lever.

Plate configuration
 
#6 ·
As far as the clutch shaft adjustment, that’s my only concern that may not be right.

it should be adjusted until tension is felt, then back off half a turn right? Should the screw attempt to rotate once tension is applied if you remove the screwdriver or should it stay in place?
I ask because I can turn it as tight as I want and it will stay in place. However in a video I watched, the guy said he had to hold the screwdriver to keep the screw from turning while he tightened the nut down.
 
#9 ·
All the clutch kits from Suzuki I have ever ordered had paint on them and were mostly orange or pink. My most high mileage clutch plates have 50k which includes track days and hard street miles and never failed me. I swapped them out at 50k for a new set and there was no change in performance so I basically wasted my $ but it never hurts to have a backup. The biggest thing is making sure the clutch plate/space orientation is exact as the micro fiche/service manual shows. Also how does your front and rear sprocket look? I have seen sprockets with missing teeth and insane wear (literally no teeth because the owner was a cheap idiot). This can also cause slipping. Where in FL are you?
 
#11 ·
I inspected the sprockets and the teeth aren’t rounded or missing any. Chain may be a little stretched. I’ll probably change it in a couple of weeks anyway with a new set of sprockets, but I don’t think that is causing my issue.

bike has 23k miles on it.

I’m in the Jacksonville area.
 
#10 ·
I don't know if the screw will move when you tighten the lock nut or not but it should be in the same position after tightening the lock nut. Just note the position of the slot before you tighten the lock nut and confirm the screw is in the same position afterwards. I have loosened the screw the same amount it moved so the next time I tightened the lock nut it ended up in the correct position.

Swapping clutch plate positions does not change the stack height so will not change anything.

Whether the rear tire rotates with the clutch disengaged is not a good indication whether the clutch is adjusted correctly or not.

BTW, the Suzuki kit comes with new springs also. Weak springs could also be an issue.

It's just me, but if I had the same issues on an old bike and I had it all apart already, I would replace the clutch plates and springs. I see the OEM kit, with the gasket, for $106 on Ebay with free shipping.
 
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#12 ·
Thanks for the help. I went ahead and ordered a new kit with springs and gasket. I have the oil and filter coming as well to get that done while I’m at it.


I don't know if the screw will move when you tighten the lock nut or not but it should be in the same position after tightening the lock nut. Just note the position of the slot before you tighten the lock nut and confirm the screw is in the same position afterwards. I have loosened the screw the same amount it moved so the next time I tightened the lock nut it ended up in the correct position.

Swapping clutch plate positions does not change the stack height so will not change anything.

Whether the rear tire rotates with the clutch disengaged is not a good indication whether the clutch is adjusted correctly or not.

BTW, the Suzuki kit comes with new springs also. Weak springs could also be an issue.

It's just me, but if I had the same issues on an old bike and I had it all apart already, I would replace the clutch plates and springs. I see the OEM kit, with the gasket, for $106 on Ebay with free shipping.
 
#16 ·
A little more-
Does it start and run/idle right? Good

If it's warmed up, and say you're cruising in a higher gear and medium/low rpms, and nail the throttle w/o touching the clutch lever- does it rev higher on the tack than the wheel speed is traveling?- then it's 'slipping'.

If you shift fast with the clutch to a bigger gear- and the R's start climbing fast, but it doesn't match the acceleration/wheel speed?- again, then it's slipping.

Is this kind of what it's doing? If so, it should be reproducable. Like happen every time you do this. Not just a rare time.

Let us know!
 
#17 ·
ok so I got home and put the clutch back together. Adjusted the cable and clutch shaft again. It no longer lunges when putting it in 1st and holding the lever in.

It starts and idles fine.

Took it down the road and attempted to accelerate quickly and it felt held back. 0-60 in probably 4.5 - 5 seconds. Shifted to 2nd and hit the throttle back hard again. Felt like another crawl up the rpms. Then it suddenly revved up faster without going faster before catching again and accelerating more.



A little more-
Does it start and run/idle right? Good

If it's warmed up, and say you're cruising in a higher gear and medium/low rpms, and nail the throttle w/o touching the clutch lever- does it rev higher on the tack than the wheel speed is traveling?- then it's 'slipping'.

If you shift fast with the clutch to a bigger gear- and the R's start climbing fast, but it doesn't match the acceleration/wheel speed?- again, then it's slipping.

Is this kind of what it's doing? If so, it should be reproducable. Like happen every time you do this. Not just a rare time.

Let us know!
 
#18 ·
The original goal was to fix the "clutch slippage" problem. Would you say that is gone? When you had this delay in acceleration did the rpms shoot up fast without the bike moving much or was everything just slow?
 
#21 ·
When the RPMs shoot up, does it come back with a hard jerk, or does the speed climb and RPMs drop with a little bit of a shudder? I've also seen older bikes have stripped out front sprockets. Just something to check and rule out.

Next, let's talk adjustment because it's screwed up more than anything else I've seen. First, you turn the adjuster at the perch in until about 4 threads are showing. Then you turn the adjuster barrel at the front sprocket cover in until your lever moves about half way with slack. Next, adjust the push rod. This last step is what gets people. I've seen them turned in so far, or the sprocket cover installed incorrectly to where it was mechanically pushing the pressure plate out. Once you have the pushrod adjusted, then adjust the barrel so you have very little play at the lever. Then fine tune the free play with the perch adjuster. When you're done, the cable should have a just a little slack.

Also, if you really want to test the clutch get going about 30mph. Shift all the way to 6th gear, clutch it and rev it to about 12000rpm. Then dump the clutch (let it out really fast) and hammer the throttle. Kind of like you're trying to clutch up wheelie. It'll do one of three things. 1) The RPMs will stay high with a little accelleration 2) the RPMs will drop to match gear and speed 3) it'll spin the rear tire. #1 is bad, both #2 and #3 are good.
 
#23 ·
The rpms come back down abruptly and then the speed climbs.

I’ve inspected the front sprocket and it isn’t rounded or missing any teeth.

I could still be messing up the push rod adjustment. Seems like it went almost all the way in before I felt tension and backed it off. I’ll try to take a video of it and show the adjustment and hopefully the issues while riding.


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#24 ·
So here is your adjustment steps... (bike cold, never adjust the clutch when warm)
1 - undo the cable from the clutch lever
2 - screw the adjuster pictured above at the top of the sprocket cover all the way into the cover.
3 - redo your push rod adjustment (lock nut loose, turn in until resistance is felt then back off)
4 - install cover and begin adjusting the screw out a little bit less than what is pictured. That looks like too much gap between the adjuster and lock nut
5 - screw the clutch lever adjuster in all the way toward the lever
6 - install your cable and begin winding the cable adjuster toward the speedo until there is about 20mm (barely apply pressure to the end of the lever to see your gap) of gap between the lever and the bracket (this will release the clutch sooner)
7 - see how it does on the stand, and if the wheel is spinning too much (clutch sees to be engaged) go out 1 click toward the speedo (keeping track of how many clicks out)
8 - go ride it keeping in mind your clicks out and try different adjustment points if necessary but again remember where you started when the engine was cold.
 
#26 ·
1) You don't need to remove the cable from the lever. Completely useless.
2) Doesn't need to be all the way in, just until there's slack in the cable.
3) Correct.
4) #3 can't be correct unless the cover is already installed. This should be done before starting adjustment. Too much gap? This is completely arbitrary based on the individual cable. For instance, mine is more than twice that.
5) You want a few threads showing in case you end up with just a little less slack from the course adjustment than what you really need.
6) You can't adjust the "course" adjuster at the sprocket cover with the cable not installed to the lever.
7) The wheel spinning with the clutch pulled has nothing to do with the clutch adjustment. It's spinning because of fluid friction with the oil.
8) There is no ride test required for a clutch cable adjustment. It's either right, or it's not.
 
#25 ·
If fork seals are blown then that's from wheelies not being set down slowly. Some oils have too much Teflon in them to prevent surfaces from sticking together and sometimes this can embed itself in fiber material and cause glazing. Hard to say without knowing the oil manufacturer. Sometimes factory paint will be left on the paints which is why I was asking but to me they look like the stock plates, If you take the cover back off (clutch lever pulled in)you might be able to mic the gap near each spring and see if it measures the same all the way around as an indication of a weak spring or springs (may not be accurate once the springs get hot). I have also seen clutch baskets twisted from drag racing and hard launches and the only way to find this out is by installing perfectly new plates into it or attempting to. If the basket is tweaked then the new plates will not go in and will drag.
 
#27 ·
Fork seals fail due to age too....

Motor oils don't have teflon. They have molybdenum, lithium, and other friction modifiers. Measuring springs? They don't change size... If plates are warped, just lay them on a flat surface to check. I've never heard of a twisted basket, so I can't comment.

Dude, stop giving bad advise. Just because things make sense in your head doesn't mean they're right.
 
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