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Discussion Starter #1
Hey GSXR ,

I tried using the search function for about 45 min but it keeps giving errors and or I get the 504 error page-possible Corona Virus!?. Weird. But I wanted to know if it's possible to have the C12 code kill my battery. I have a brand new battery, and have started the bike over the past weekend several times with out any problems. Idles fine and TPS sensor indicates normal operation (according to the manual) - just today and once before without any work done to the bike and old battery- bike wouldn't start.

Cranks nice and wants to fire but doesn't. Finally I was able to get the code C12. I checked the ohms of the sensor and it's about 168-171 ohms and within the range stated in the manual. I don't have a Peak Meter to use just a cheap DVM. I have an oscilloscope but I haven't fired it up in about 18 years and not a fancy one. I also have access to a Fluke Peak RMS DVM would that work?

I charged the battery back up on the tender and I have a feeling if I try to start the bike tomorrow it will fire. Sucks to because I just replaced the clutch rings and had the crank cover off on Friday. I'm pretty sure this problem was already there because I had a starting problem once before I did anywork to it. I shook the bike listening for gas and it started after that.

Those sensors are pretty pricey. But at least I know the oil is clean and new so I will reuse it.
 

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No the code/bad CKP would not kill your battery.
2006 GSXR 750?
Battery I assume is the Yuasa YT12A-BS (factory battery)

Steps I would take:
You have enough fuel in the tank correct?
Key on/kill switch on and can hear the fuel pump prime?
Tank up, check your connections going to both the CKP and CPS for wear and then check voltage.
You witnessed spark on all 4 plugs? I was pretty sure that the CKP stops spark from being produced.
Its possible the magnet on the CKP could have collected metal shavings or one of the wires could be frayed but if your getting resistance then unlikely.

Ebay is your friend when it comes to problems like this if you don't have $200 for the new OEM part.
 

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We fixed a similar issue last year. In this case there was no code, the resistance and peak voltage checks were in limits. Finally pulled the cover off and found one of the CKP mount screws loose and stuck to the sensor.

 

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Discussion Starter #4 (Edited)
@EVL 750 correct 06 750 but the battery is an aftermarket Fire-something...I have to check when I get home. 54$ dollar job. Bought at a local shop. I figured I would be changing the battery down the line anyway. I did put it on the tender overnight and waited until the light indicated charged before I popped it in. And I didn't check for spark. I didn't even think of it. I have a feeling it's gonna start later today. I didn't get a code until I kept trying to make a code appear BTW
EDIT: So the crank sensor = engine coil ?

I did an electrical check when it was running and voltages looked fine. 14-15 V while idle. I didnt bring it to 5k/RPM though. Stand still with no surface voltage was about 12.7 then down to 12.3ish with kill switch on and hi beam.

Now it won't crank and 0.0 V on battery. I re-charged the battery got 12.8 volts at battery and with crank was about 12.4 still nothing. Cranks but nothing. So it seems I have 2 issues.

I'll try all suggestions first with the sensors, try and get it turned over then do electrical voltage testing again.


Will this meter be able to get a peak voltage reading? I read that it's supposed to be in AC V for the CKPS ? I should know this I've only been using these for oh 18 something years. ?
293220



I
 

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[/QUOTE]

@EVL 750 correct 06 750 but the battery is an aftermarket Fire-something...I have to check when I get home. 54$ dollar job. Bought at a local shop. I figured I would be changing the battery down the line anyway. I did put it on the tender overnight and waited until the light indicated charged before I popped it in. And I didn't check for spark. I didn't even think of it. I have a feeling it's gonna start later today. I didn't get a code until I kept trying to make a code appear BTW
EDIT: So the crank sensor = engine coil ?

I did an electrical check when it was running and voltages looked fine. 14-15 V while idle. I didnt bring it to 5k/RPM though. Stand still with no surface voltage was about 12.7 then down to 12.3ish with kill switch on and hi beam.

Now it won't crank and 0.0 V on battery. I re-charged the battery got 12.8 volts at battery and with crank was about 12.4 still nothing. Cranks but nothing. So it seems I have 2 issues.

I'll try all suggestions first with the sensors, try and get it turned over then do electrical voltage testing again.

EDIT: So the crank sensor = engine coil ?

I did an electrical check when it was running and voltages looked fine. 14-15 V while idle. I didnt bring it to 5k/RPM though. Stand still with no surface voltage was about 12.7 then down to 12.3ish with kill switch on and hi beam.
Now it won't crank and 0.0 V on battery. I re-charged the battery got 12.8 volts at battery and with crank was about 12.4 still nothing. Cranks but nothing. So it seems I have 2 issues.

I'll try all suggestions first with the sensors, try and get it turned over then do electrical voltage testing again.


Will this meter be able to get a peak voltage reading? I read that it's supposed to be in AC V for the CKPS ? I should know this I've only been using these for oh 18 something years. ?


I
The battery:
You MUST put the OEM battery back in the bike. Batteries that are not from the manufacturer (Yuasa for your bike, $89) for these bikes will die after a short time due to their poor core quality and size (lead break down/shedding and contact between the cores). The bad batteries (which can still hold a charge for about 5 secs then die) will then over tax the stator and rectifier which will cause the stator legs to burn up or the stator to over heat and burn up. Return the garbage battery if you can, buy the YT12A-BS either from a shop or from Revzilla and set it up yourself/charge it (acid in but caps off for 24 hours, then cap it and install).

The CKP is the signal generator and like rv6 said the screws can back themselves our either from engine vibration or improper installation. If your CKP is bad your bike cannot start/produce information for the correct firing order. Your voltages are correct though.

What about your fuel pump priming?

You need: fuel, timing, spark
 

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Discussion Starter #6


The battery:
You MUST put the OEM battery back in the bike. Batteries that are not from the manufacturer (Yuasa for your bike, $89) for these bikes will die after a short time due to their poor core quality and size (lead break down/shedding and contact between the cores). The bad batteries (which can still hold a charge for about 5 secs then die) will then over tax the stator and rectifier which will cause the stator legs to burn up or the stator to over heat and burn up. Return the garbage battery if you can, buy the YT12A-BS either from a shop or from Revzilla and set it up yourself/charge it (acid in but caps off for 24 hours, then cap it and install).

The CKP is the signal generator and like rv6 said the screws can back themselves our either from engine vibration or improper installation. If your CKP is bad your bike cannot start/produce information for the correct firing order. Your voltages are correct though.

What about your fuel pump priming?

You need: fuel, timing, spark
[/QUOTE]
Yikes, ok. I think I can return it. I know the guy at the shop. At least trade it for the OEM. And I hear the pump priming when I hit the kill switch. I better do the fuel pressure check. Can I just use the testers they loan out at the auto stores.

Man things will be a little rough these next few weeks too with all this lock down going on. I just want to ride man. LOL patience is gonna be my killer.
 

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@Primo1 a non-Yuasa battery is just fine. Yes there can be a relationship between quality and price but it is not 100%.

I am not a fan of the flooded lead acid technology of the old OEM spec battery. AGM batteries are so much better.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
I was actually planning on buying something like
LFX14A1-BS12 Shorai LFX Lithium Technology just to shed a pound or 2 . Cost wise whatever I don't want to spend 200+ but under 150 is decenct.

I bought the after market cause it was 50$ he gave me a discount , and I knowing that it wasn't gonna last long. But over night ?! I'll post some results later


Edit: just as I figured , bike started right up today when I got home. Battery was at full charge . Rode around a few blocks very easy on it and didn't notice anything.

Started it up 4 times after that no problems. I did notice I have an oil leak out of the stator cover . Pisses me off because I just replaced it. Ordered a CKPS also anyway just for the hell of it.
293222
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Alright guys. So last night about a couple of hours after I was done from earlier in the evening, I decided to test the bike on a longer run. Got my gear, my wife was looking at me leave-the whole "awww yay babe !"

Thens I tell her "watch it not start" Sure enough!!!! No start. The voltages all looked good from the sensor earlier in the day, RPMs at 5k Volts got to about 14.4-14.5 with a calibrated DVM.

So as before , I popped the seat off, left the key in on and went to dealer mode. No codes so I tried cranking a few times and after the 3rd or so I got the code. Didn't bother with it at all after than. A grown man almost cried ! :cry: LMAO I feel like such a litlle ass kid. That's normal right!? I feel so empty when I can't ride.

Anyway , I called the shop to setup a valve check and throttle sync- if I had the time off I would definitely do the valve check myself, even ordered gaskets. But may as well do the throttle sync as well. Guys around here are pretty fair and sometimes even super compassionate in the right circumstances .

In the meantime - I have to decide if I can find a sensor in stock for 270$ because I can't wait or order online for fraction of that from partzilla- OEM sensor for 130$ + shipping/tax . They probably wont have it in store anyway. If the code is still there later I'll go ahead and check spark, and drain the oil anyway. Start looking finer at the sensor.

Thanks for reading. I feel like the little fat kid that can't eat cake :LOL:
 

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So if your getting good voltage then the charging/battery is not your problem at the moment. While traditional acid filled may not be the best or most updated technology it is the most tried and true, then you factor in the build of it and cost. At $50 I would of just bought the $89 Yuasa but that's just me and after having so many bikes come through out shop over the years. Did I read your post wrong, I thought you said the battery had died immediately after ownership (cheap batteries are notorious for going dead after 3-6 months)? When the bike wouldn't start what was the battery voltage? Normal idle voltage (1200rpm) is 14.2-14.5. The fuel pressure tester can be rented from autozone, just make sure you have 2 flex hoses and 4 hose clamps. I think the PSI is 43-44. This does sound like the CKP though and it is probably worth your time taking the cover off and seeing if its loose.

Ebay has what you need for cheap, just read the descriptions carefully.

For the OEM
 

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Discussion Starter #11
@EVL 750 I'm going to go ahead and order the new sensor. Takes speculation out of the equation. The battery thing not to concerned. Just wondering what killed it. It charges back up. I have it on a tender now. Could be my ignition. It's borked up a bit. Get's stuck and spins around sometimes. But I make sure the wheels are locked, that's how I know it's not in ACC mode.

So I think. Once I get this sensor in and get consistent starts hopefully I'll inspect charging system in more detail.
 

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Sorry to be going a bit off track, but since you brought it up.
"2006 GSXR 750? Battery I assume is the Yuasa YT12A-BS (factory battery)"

The parts fiche indicates as much. That's strange because the 1000's got a Furukawa FT12A-BS. Both seem to be 10 A Hr, have the same dimensions, and the same weight. The Furukawa is hard to find in the US.

That Fluke 289 is a nice meter. I was dubious but the user's manual indicates that it has a peak voltage function, both max and min.

"Could be my ignition. It's borked up a bit. Get's stuck and spins around sometimes."
You mean the ignition switch? If so, that needs to be fixed. Did someone once try to steal the bike?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
@billv Ya the Fluke meter gave me numbers that looked on par with the specs in manual. I borrowed it from work.

Ya the ignition switch hub. Where the key goes. The mechanic told me that there are tamper proof screws under . I want to replace it but haven't looked under the hub. It only moves if I make it move however.

Used bike owner said he got it like that. He had it for 2 years
 

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Sorry to be going a bit off track, but since you brought it up.
"2006 GSXR 750? Battery I assume is the Yuasa YT12A-BS (factory battery)"

The parts fiche indicates as much. That's strange because the 1000's got a Furukawa FT12A-BS. Both seem to be 10 A Hr, have the same dimensions, and the same weight. The Furukawa is hard to find in the US.

That Fluke 289 is a nice meter. I was dubious but the user's manual indicates that it has a peak voltage function, both max and min.

"Could be my ignition. It's borked up a bit. Get's stuck and spins around sometimes."
You mean the ignition switch? If so, that needs to be fixed. Did someone once try to steal the bike?
Realistically they are the same but a different manufacturer. I have both batteries in my bikes, the 2002 gsxr 750 has the Yuasa as did my 2007 and my 2017 gsxr 1000 has the Fuku.
 

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The Yuasa is 33610-02F01 while the Furukawa is 33610-14G10/33610-14G11. I don't see any pattern other than they may have switched everything to Furukawa around 2013.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Had some time to troubleshoot the bike. It of course didn't start. I checked the plugs and wasn't getting any spark , nice crank but no spark. No code either, then all of a sudden I got a spark unexpectedly and bam the bike fired up.

I'm still waiting for the sensor but I did drain the oil now and remove the crankcase cover. The sensor looks greasy but don't see metal shavings on the magnet. I do see shavings on one of the screws. And damn it! I have to dremel the son of B out, That sucker is on there good and stripping every time. I hate that crap.

Also noticed some white frosty stuff , I saw this when I first did the clutch. I'm wondering if I should just replace the water pump? I've read that this could also be due to the bike not warming up enough and condensation not having enough time evaporate? Does it look bad ? Oil look pretty good both times I drained it.

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@Primo1 Put some heat on that screw, grab it with vice grips and it should come right out.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
@rv6john I ended up using the Dremel. Real quickly turned it into a slotted screw. I thought of vise grips but it would have been an award angle. All's well. Just patiently waiting for the sensor.

I did clean up the connector to the harness. And cleaned up the CMP sensor too
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"You know talking batteries is like talking gang turf right ?"
It's just strange that Suzuki uses two suppliers for essentially the same battery. Companies are sensitive to inventory issues and this flies in their face.

"white frosty stuff"
This also doesn't make much sense. That's almost always corrosion but the areas that you're talking about are covered with oil, which should prevent any corrosion. Not warming up is generally due to the thermostat not closing or that you're somewhere like Canada or Alaska. But the coolant system is separated from the areas where the oil is. So I don't know what it is but am wondering if it's something else like from the clutch fibers. AFAIK the black stator(?) cover with a white GSXR on it is not OEM and I also wonder if it's somehow involved in this.

An intermittent sensor that tests OK is commonly a pinched lead (the oil pressure switch being a prime example). Pay attention to the routing of leads. I guess a connector could also be acting up.
 
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