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Yes, I know what flashing means, but I'm unsure how and why it is done. From what I gather, you send your ECM to somebody reliable, and they change the fuel injection parameters. Is that correct?
Having spent years tuning bikes on my Dynojet dyno since before fuel injection and then into the fuel injection world, a question immediately arises in my mind. How do they know what the ECM needs for peak performance?
In my world, working with every version of Power Commander ever made, including the Fuel Nanny (bet you don't know what that is), the thing that I know holds true is that for peak performance no one map fits every like model! If I have three GSXR 750's to remap, I can guarantee you that all three will end up having different parameters. Now if all you want is a map that comes close then maybe a flash will suffice, but having spent hours on one racebike to get the best performance, I know that if I took that map and put it on another same year model it may not work as well.
Three same bikes basically all the same, with different exhaust systems will need three different maps to perform to their best possible state.
I have had many, many bikes brought to me after visiting a shop that used the autotune system and I always made them run better. I have had two that actually had less horsepower than they did stock. One 2001 GSXR750, had a milled head, thin base and head gaskets, degreed cams, BMC filter, and it had 12 horsepower less than a bone stock one I did the day before.
So how can you get optimal horsepower from a mapped/flashed ECM if it hasn't been tested on a dyno. If the answer is that it has to finished up with a dyno tune, then why not just install the proper Power Commander and go from there?
Or could it be that the number of techs with real dyno experience are few and far between?
Just wondering! Tire Wheel Fuel tank Automotive fuel system Automotive lighting
 

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Yes, I know what flashing means, but I'm unsure how and why it is done. From what I gather, you send your ECM to somebody reliable, and they change the fuel injection parameters. Is that correct?
Having spent years tuning bikes on my Dynojet dyno since before fuel injection and then into the fuel injection world, a question immediately arises in my mind. How do they know what the ECM needs for peak performance?
In my world, working with every version of Power Commander ever made, including the Fuel Nanny (bet you don't know what that is), the thing that I know holds true is that for peak performance no one map fits every like model! If I have three GSXR 750's to remap, I can guarantee you that all three will end up having different parameters. Now if all you want is a map that comes close then maybe a flash will suffice, but having spent hours on one racebike to get the best performance, I know that if I took that map and put it on another same year model it may not work as well.
Three same bikes basically all the same, with different exhaust systems will need three different maps to perform to their best possible state.
I have had many, many bikes brought to me after visiting a shop that used the autotune system and I always made them run better. I have had two that actually had less horsepower than they did stock. One 2001 GSXR750, had a milled head, thin base and head gaskets, degreed cams, BMC filter, and it had 12 horsepower less than a bone stock one I did the day before.
So how can you get optimal horsepower from a mapped/flashed ECM if it hasn't been tested on a dyno. If the answer is that it has to finished up with a dyno tune, then why not just install the proper Power Commander and go from there?
Or could it be that the number of techs with real dyno experience are few and far between?
Just wondering! View attachment 297069
My experience with mail in ECU flashing has been positive but I omitted changes to the fueling. I simply went with everything else offered and used the ECU or a Bazzaz to dyno tune. Here is the service I used.



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You are not exactly wrong. When you send your ECU to a reputable flash tuner, such as Moore Mafia, he will flash it with the tune that works best overall for the parameters of your bike. Meaning, he has tuned enough of them to get it pretty close to the ideal tune for what you have done to your bike. All bikes since the 70's are lean stock from the factory. Close is better than stock. BUT, the best way, would be to bring your whole bike to such a tuner, to be TESTED, and fine tuned WITH a dyno. Yes, you could send in your ECU, and the bike runs worse after it was flashed. I personally haven't heard of such results, but I assume it depends on who you send it to. Watch some Youtube videos from Moore Mafia, he explains it quite well.
 
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I think the big benefit is fuel and ignition timing will be improved for a couple of hundred dollars quick and easy. It won't be the perfect tune, but close enough is probably good for 95% of the riders, myself included.

Also during the flash, they can reset other parameters such as fan operating temps, getting rid of the timing nanny in lower gears, closed throttle fuel cut off, etc.
 
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I have to agree with Spyder saying the best tune will be with a flash/dyno combo, but the tuner needs to be experienced and want to do it right. It will take multiple dyno runs with each run getting it closer & closer to the 'perfect' tune. And there are a lot of variables that can affect each tune such as location, ambient intake air temp, humidity, and differences in bikes even of the same make/model (as you mentioned. So yes, you are correct in questioning whether you can get the best tune with a simple ECU flash. Like John says, it can be good enough for most riders but if you're trying to eek out another hundreth of a second on the track just a flash isn't the way to go.

Here's a couple of pic's from the tuning software I use just in case you might find it interesting. First pic is of the main menu of the WRT software and the menu items you can play with. Second pic is a 3D visual representation of one of the fuel maps (which is based on engine date in an Excel spreadsheet type cell format where the actual tuning is done).

Rectangle Font Parallel Screenshot Computer program


Colorfulness Slope Rectangle Line Font
 

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I'm a carb guy from the 80's and still have 2 carbed bikes. Thats what I know and understand. I understand the principle behind flashing and a good flasher will tell you to get the last micron of power from a flash it needs to be dyno tuned. That being said a tune from a reputable tuner will get you close. I have an Ivan's flash on my 14R and it is very noticeable in terms of smoothness and power delivery. He let me ride his personal 14R before buying and that's what sold me. OTOH I have a Moores Mafia flash on my k6 750.It too makes a noticeable difference but I can tell its not as refined as Ivan's. I believe the difference is because Ivan actually buys every bike he sells a tune for and has the time to tweak and refine every aspect of it. I'm not endorsing either over any of the other guy's out here selling tunes just know that some flashers are a little more perfectionist than others.
 
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