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CCS/ASRA Expert #77
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Well done LW!

I'm doing my first track day at Little Tally two weeks from tomorrow.
Really looking forward to it!
Awesome! Super addictive!! ;)

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Well as I mentioned over in the chat thread, I had my first crash Saturday. I haven't had a chance to trim any video or upload photos yet, but I will.

So here is what happened. Went out for the first session (after a 45 minute freeze due to oil on the track), we ran two sighting laps with a coach in lead. The laps were slow, really slow. Coming out of 9 I get on the throttle to get the rear tire warmed up and to pass to the two guys in front of me. I ease my way through 10 and onto the front stretch. Get on the throttle late on exit to keep from spinning up while still cold. As I'm coming down the straight I start to brake really early to actually use the brakes because they were hardly touched on the sighting laps. I grab the front, I have good lever, but little bite. I slowly work on and off the brake while down shifting and then BAM! Front folds over well before hitting corner entry. I got lucky I didn't get launched over the bars.

I landed fairly hard on my right shoulder (deformed the stainless steel shoulder cap on my suit), hit right side of my head off the pavement and then slide a good ways on my side. I was able to jump up quick and get out of the way. All in all I felt fine, but did need a new helmet. Bike did some spinning, but only minor damage; frame slider bent, warn case saver puck, warn rearset peg and some rash. Brake lever folded as designed. Was able to ride the bike off the track. Was back out after lunch (with a new helmet).

I spent a lot of time talking to coaches and riders trying to help get to the bottom of what happened. although on coldish tires I can't imagine them giving up traction under those conditions. We've narrowed it to brakes. Either I did a poor job cleaning the pads/rotors which caused them to have fluid on them so there was no bite until it burnt off and at the moment it burnt off is when the front locked, or the Versah pads were just so sensitive to the cold they needed the heat and again after working them they finally got enough bit down hard enough to lock suddenly.

Regardless, no one to blame but myself. It was negligence in either my care of the brakes after working on them, or lack of care in getting them warm enough to perform.

After lunch I got back out on the bike. First session I was mr. snail trying to feel out the brakes. After regaining confidence I started riding harder. Apparently well enough to get a bump up at the very end of the day. Unfortunately didn't get a chance to ride the intermediate group at all due to the time, but I will for next TD.

Lessons learned all day long. Have to put your ego aside and don't be afraid to ask for help. Purchased a closeout NEXX helmet. It's not bad. I think the Shoei is still a better helmet though.
 

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CCS/ASRA Expert #77
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Hate to hear about the off, but congrats on getting back out there and getting the bump.

When you say "I slowly work on and off the brakes", are you applying then releasing them, and exactly when are you doing it ?

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Hate to hear about the off, but congrats on getting back out there and getting the bump.

When you say "I slowly work on and off the brakes", are you applying then releasing them, and exactly when are you doing it ?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Coming down the front straight I started braking way early. I squeezed the lever, let go, squeezed again, let go, squeezed again, let go, squeezed - thud. I did it because I was afraid of exactly what happened, happening. I was trying to avoid sudden heavy bite of the brakes. Clearly I did something wrong, maybe I didn't come off the lever fair enough or long enough so I was building pressure in the system and eventually hit too much pressure. When I get the video up you can see that despite being on the brake I wasn't decelerating much and then I went down.
 

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That sucks about your off. I have been there, but I wasn't able to ride the rest of the day. Most important thing is you were not injured.

Did you break in the new pads? I run Vesrah pads as well. When I put new pads on, I do some laps around the block with lots of steady firm braking to wear them in. I can always feel the brakes getting better as they wear in and less pressure on the lever is needed to stop.

Maybe you grabbed more brake then you normally would have based on how the brakes felt initially, but this time they were broken in and had a lot more bite.
 

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They aren't new pads, used them all last season, so definitely broken in by now. Only changes to the brake system over the offseason was a new res kit so a good bleed too. Guess it's possible I had air last season that I got out during the bleed and I didn't anticipate the bite, but that would really explain the lack of initial bite. They felt fine later in the day with no changes other than a good inspection of the system and a coach taking the bike for a ride.
 

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It would have hurt me and the bike a lot more if it flipped. Could have easily launched me over the bars. Not sure of the brand of slider, I don't really like them anyway so I will be ordering woodcraft ones. Hopefully getting the bent bolt from the block won't be too hard
 

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It would have hurt me and the bike a lot more if it flipped. Could have easily launched me over the bars. Not sure of the brand of slider, I don't really like them anyway so I will be ordering woodcraft ones. Hopefully getting the bent bolt from the block won't be too hard
It won't be hard. Should spin right out. If not a hammer or pipe will bend it back enough so that you can
 

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@apiazza Very interesting. I am glad that you are alright and sharing the details. I've already learned something from it :thumbup:

My first reaction is either you had air in the lines and it bit eventually after you were used to not much pressure. I have a brembo on the race bike and stock MC on the 750 street bike that I do ride at the track too.

I guess it could be these pads were cold, but I've never experienced anything like that. Actually I've never had to change pads out yet.

You said the pads weren't new and you put a new res on and bled them. Did you have the rotors and pads off? Could have been a frozen piston that came to life?

When you did the bleed them you mentioned you had fluid all over you. Did fluid get on the rotors or pads or bike? If so I would blame that.

I bought a $2 clear hose from the hardware store. Zip tie it to the bleeder. On the other end of the hose I duct tape an empty water bottle. Bleed away and no mess at all, plus with the clear hose you can watch if there is any air left. OF course follow the steps in the manual as to order of bleeding. Normally calipers, then MC.

Again, my bike is tore apart and I half way thought about taking it around the block first before driving 6 hours to the track on 4/16. Might have to do it for sure now.
 

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@apiazza Very interesting. I am glad that you are alright and sharing the details. I've already learned something from it :thumbup:

My first reaction is either you had air in the lines and it bit eventually after you were used to not much pressure. I have a brembo on the race bike and stock MC on the 750 street bike that I do ride at the track too.

I guess it could be these pads were cold, but I've never experienced anything like that. Actually I've never had to change pads out yet.

You said the pads weren't new and you put a new res on and bled them. Did you have the rotors and pads off? Could have been a frozen piston that came to life?

When you did the bleed them you mentioned you had fluid all over you. Did fluid get on the rotors or pads or bike? If so I would blame that.

I bought a $2 clear hose from the hardware store. Zip tie it to the bleeder. On the other end of the hose I duct tape an empty water bottle. Bleed away and no mess at all, plus with the clear hose you can watch if there is any air left. OF course follow the steps in the manual as to order of bleeding. Normally calipers, then MC.

Again, my bike is tore apart and I half way thought about taking it around the block first before driving 6 hours to the track on 4/16. Might have to do it for sure now.
If I had to lend a guess I would say it was a combination of temps and my own negligence. The pads were cold, really cold. Because the bike was on an open trailer I actually stopped every 30-40 minutes to get out of the car and warm up the bike to make sure the rad didn't freeze up :0001136745-facepalm

I bled the brakes one last time around the bike before the sessions started (left caliper, right caliper, master) and saw no air in my clear hose. Also tend to not think it's air because the feeling in my lever never changed, but it is possible still. I try to be carefully and wipe everything down after bleeding but I also don't usually use chemicals like brake clean because they are rough on rubber, but it looks like I probably should have used something more than just a clean blue shop towel.
 

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If I had to lend a guess I would say it was a combination of temps and my own negligence. The pads were cold, really cold. Because the bike was on an open trailer I actually stopped every 30-40 minutes to get out of the car and warm up the bike to make sure the rad didn't freeze up :0001136745-facepalm

I bled the brakes one last time around the bike before the sessions started (left caliper, right caliper, master) and saw no air in my clear hose. Also tend to not think it's air because the feeling in my lever never changed, but it is possible still. I try to be carefully and wipe everything down after bleeding but I also don't usually use chemicals like brake clean because they are rough on rubber, but it looks like I probably should have used something more than just a clean blue shop towel.
Did brake fluid end up on the bike? I've never used cleaner either but i've never gotten any on the bike because it goes into an empty water bottle taped to the other end. No mess period.

But I see 3 options:
1) Fluid on the rotor/pads.
2) Air bubble in the line
3) Seized caliper piston that let loose.

I'll have to remember if I feel any brake weirdness, come off and do some testing in the hot pit or something.
 
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