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Just read this: Take it for what you will.
http://www.1tail.com/sa/news/s/default.htm?g={22F6D1DF-72CF-4A36-B9F1-1E87EFDF1809}
http://www.1tail.com/sa/news/s/default.htm?g={22F6D1DF-72CF-4A36-B9F1-1E87EFDF1809}
Gsxr 1000 K5 Frame Defect
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This may not be "Hot Breaking News", and I did not search to see if there was a thread about this already. Just wanted to help inform everyone.
Yeah this has been discussed everywhere else not sure about on here though. The article I had seen showed pics of the bike hitting a wall at like 120 head on. I'm no professional welder or racer for that matter but doesn't it seem weird that a frame would just let go on a corner? I know the torque of the bike makes them flex but this seems kinda odd in my opinoin. But again I don't know shit about shit so don't listen to me.
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Lol.. thats what i'm saying. I don't know shit about shit sometimes too. lol. Just getting it out there for those who might wanna know.
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I agree...pmhallum said:
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pmhallum said:
exactly :thumbup:
how many has mladin broken, and he beats the piss out of that bike..........he just doesnt put them into a wall at 100+mph
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I'm a certified welder, having held probably 50 different certifications. I'm also an American Welding Society Certified Welding Inspector....
And I'd reject that shit in a heartbeat!!!
I can't say that it caused an accident, or what caused enough stress to break it, but that weld is unacceptable. Heck, I can't even speak as to what bike this weld was on, so take my post for only what it's worth....welding inspection information.
Most likely, full penetration wasn't even something they wanted to achieve...but they really needed to get more than that. The lack of penetration is such that it definitely poses a question of whether lack of fusion is an issue. An xray of this weld would be interesting, but there's some things that I can tell already that would show up in an xray. See all the little round holes? This is called porosity. They're kinda like air bubbles in the weld.
Typically, in an environment like what these frames are welded in, the welding procedure is developed and tested prior to beginning production.
Here's how it usually works: One piece of metal is welded up, with all variables such as wiretype, amperage, voltage, travel speed, etc is recorded. The weld is then subjected to tests like tensile pulls, bending and/or by chemically etching a cross-section of the weld. After it passes the required tests, the procedure is then qualified. The welding engineer (or other person assigned the duties) will write up a welding procedure specification (WPS). The WPS will often allow the operator of the welding equipment to make deviations to the specific settings that were done to qualify the procedure. For example, a person may need to turn up the wirespeed or travel speed, and is allowed to within the limits specified on the welding procedure specification. It is sometimes possible for the operator to deviate the variables such that a poor weld will result.... which may be what happened here.
That said, it is also possible that one operator could have changes settings on the machine to their preference, and another shift did the same. I don't know that there'd be any way to even know which bikes had problems like this and which didn't....without an xray of each one.
If this article is truly factual, and deemed to not be an isolated incident, Suzuki may need to have bikes xrayed in these spots...then either do repairs or replacements for those that do not pass the xray testing.
I've read rumors of this problem, but this is the first time I have seen actual photos and heard of it happening at a time other than an accident.
And I'd reject that shit in a heartbeat!!!
I can't say that it caused an accident, or what caused enough stress to break it, but that weld is unacceptable. Heck, I can't even speak as to what bike this weld was on, so take my post for only what it's worth....welding inspection information.
Most likely, full penetration wasn't even something they wanted to achieve...but they really needed to get more than that. The lack of penetration is such that it definitely poses a question of whether lack of fusion is an issue. An xray of this weld would be interesting, but there's some things that I can tell already that would show up in an xray. See all the little round holes? This is called porosity. They're kinda like air bubbles in the weld.
Typically, in an environment like what these frames are welded in, the welding procedure is developed and tested prior to beginning production.
Here's how it usually works: One piece of metal is welded up, with all variables such as wiretype, amperage, voltage, travel speed, etc is recorded. The weld is then subjected to tests like tensile pulls, bending and/or by chemically etching a cross-section of the weld. After it passes the required tests, the procedure is then qualified. The welding engineer (or other person assigned the duties) will write up a welding procedure specification (WPS). The WPS will often allow the operator of the welding equipment to make deviations to the specific settings that were done to qualify the procedure. For example, a person may need to turn up the wirespeed or travel speed, and is allowed to within the limits specified on the welding procedure specification. It is sometimes possible for the operator to deviate the variables such that a poor weld will result.... which may be what happened here.
That said, it is also possible that one operator could have changes settings on the machine to their preference, and another shift did the same. I don't know that there'd be any way to even know which bikes had problems like this and which didn't....without an xray of each one.
If this article is truly factual, and deemed to not be an isolated incident, Suzuki may need to have bikes xrayed in these spots...then either do repairs or replacements for those that do not pass the xray testing.
I've read rumors of this problem, but this is the first time I have seen actual photos and heard of it happening at a time other than an accident.
I was @ this race which was a MRA race weekend @ PPIR in Fountain,Co. The date was May 14th & 15th.
I saw the bike after the crash. The bike did hit the wall comming off the front straight down the banking. If you ever have seen the AMA racers on tv/Speed channel you can see this turn (T1) is a fast drop & if not taken properly will send you into the wall.
I think the impact of hitting the wall broke the frame along with the front wheel & forks. Just my two cents.
I saw the bike after the crash. The bike did hit the wall comming off the front straight down the banking. If you ever have seen the AMA racers on tv/Speed channel you can see this turn (T1) is a fast drop & if not taken properly will send you into the wall.
I think the impact of hitting the wall broke the frame along with the front wheel & forks. Just my two cents.
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Yup while I don't think the weld was the greatest weld...I don't think that caused the crash. But I think all bikes now days the frames are getting weaker. They're getting lighter...but they're getting weaker. Plus even if the frame didn't snap in that crash I'd expect it to at least be extremely damaged. To the point where you'd need to replace the frame anyways.
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I can't view the link from work...but this thread is kinda freakin' me out. I'm going stRaight home to inspect this myself. It anything looks familiar..it's going right back to the dealership. YIKES!!!!! :headshake
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It's doubtful that you could look at your frame and see the defect that this frame had...since it's INTERNAL porosity. It would only show in an xray or destructive testing.
If any of you are concerned about your frames, you can probably find a local place that will xray yours. With this being a fairly common concern, maybe the dealer or Suzuki would spring for the cost...especially if you tell them that you will post the results in public. If they don't want to pay, I'd PROMISE them that I'd post the results, and ask them if they were scared.
That said, if I did have my frame xrayed, and it has excessive porosity, I'd definitely do what it took to have them replace it.
Of course, a crash can be the cause of this, and the frame may have never broken if the crash hadn't happened...BUT... It's also possible that the frame breaks in a crash and your leg gets impaled on it, rather than having a frame that will bend because the weld's strong enough to hold up. Consider roll cages in cars. There's restrictions in many racing associations on what parts of it can be welded and what parts must be bent. This is partially because they dont want crappy welds to break and allow the pipe to impale the car occupants.
Typically, when a weld is tested with a tensile pull (pulled apart till it breaks), the sample is rejected if it breaks IN the weld. It should break next to the weld since the weld should be the strongest part of the piece. Obviously, that wasn't the case with this frame.
In short...even with the crash, the frame should have bent, not broken. There's no excuse for having a weld like what is posted above.
If any of you are concerned about your frames, you can probably find a local place that will xray yours. With this being a fairly common concern, maybe the dealer or Suzuki would spring for the cost...especially if you tell them that you will post the results in public. If they don't want to pay, I'd PROMISE them that I'd post the results, and ask them if they were scared.
That said, if I did have my frame xrayed, and it has excessive porosity, I'd definitely do what it took to have them replace it.
Of course, a crash can be the cause of this, and the frame may have never broken if the crash hadn't happened...BUT... It's also possible that the frame breaks in a crash and your leg gets impaled on it, rather than having a frame that will bend because the weld's strong enough to hold up. Consider roll cages in cars. There's restrictions in many racing associations on what parts of it can be welded and what parts must be bent. This is partially because they dont want crappy welds to break and allow the pipe to impale the car occupants.
Typically, when a weld is tested with a tensile pull (pulled apart till it breaks), the sample is rejected if it breaks IN the weld. It should break next to the weld since the weld should be the strongest part of the piece. Obviously, that wasn't the case with this frame.
In short...even with the crash, the frame should have bent, not broken. There's no excuse for having a weld like what is posted above.
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127 Posts
I can't believe this is being discussed again. Doesn't everyone know by now that if you ride the new gixxer in the rain the frame will oxidize at the welds. Every service I have the dealer spread a special penetrating solvent on the welds to clean the oxidation and seal the welds for another 3000 miles.
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I crashed my 05 1000 at 15mil/h. Hit the back of a van that jumped on his brakes. My frame cracked like a twig in five places, including at both welds. I've seen all the shit going around about the welds being bad, but put it off as just talk, until I took one look at my bike. An accident as minor as mine should not have yielded that much damage. I am getting the frame inspected. I'd post pics if I knew how. Sorry
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What's the name of that solvent?? The rain season is coming. Also....any of you guys who have had k5 frame trouble, would rain have been a factor?Snakes600 said:
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