[Kgermanton]

Hey guys, I have a gsxr 1000 motor in my prototype race car and I’m having drive issues. When I first start driving the motor has some drive and then as I continue it starts slipping more and more to the point where I have zero forward drive. I’ve replaced the clutch twice (hopefully correctly) and the same issue continues. I then replaced the clutch slave cylinder and the issue continued. A bunch of guys who have bike engine cars told me to replace the clutch master cylinder and I’ve done that. I haven’t tested since the master replacement but I figured I would ask you guys if you may know how to troubleshoot this issue. I’ve owned the race car for two years and this issue has caused me countless headaches and wasted time bringing it to the race track. If anyone lives near northern NJ and wants to be paid to look over my clutch install I’d be willing to pay. Thanks in advance

 

[Tinsnips]

What oil are you using? Also what year is the engine? Is it all OEM parts?

 

[Kgermanton]

What oil are you using? Also what year is the engine? Is it all OEM parts?

Motul 4T recently. I think one of the 4Ts from the local Suzuki dealers with the prior clutch change. No idea what year, it’s a K7 I believe. Since it’s hydraulic clutch. I used genuine Suzuki clutch replacement and new springs.

 

[Winchester Boy]

With a hydraulic clutch you must have a little free play in the lever or else the clutch won't engage completely and will ruin the clutch.

 

[Kgermanton]

With a hydraulic clutch you must have a little free play in the lever or else the clutch won't engage completely and will ruin the clutch.

When Suzuki changed from a cable to hydraulic they eliminated the free play adjustment from what I’ve read. The only adjustment on my motor is the three adjuster pins on the clutch basket and I read it’s a fine adjustment for “slip” I went with 2 turns out from contact on that.

 

[Winchester Boy]

If there is no free play in the lever the clutch is not fully engaged.

 

[Kgermanton]

If there is no free play in the lever the clutch is not fully engaged.

Absolutely, I have a clutch pedal attached to a racing manual master cylinder and i don’t have any pressure on the piston of the master when not being pressed so In a way there is free play. I’m trying to figure out of the slave or the master is where the hydraulic system could be continuing to press on the clutch. Or if the K7 with zero clutch adjustment has some other rare issue where it slips erroneously

 

[billv]

The three pins adjust the back-torque limiter. The service manual procedure to set them is to remove the clutch hub/plates/pressure plate assembly and set the pins using feeler gauges where the pins emerge from the hub. The service manual spec is the same for K5/K6 cable actuator and K7/K8 hydraulic. This is a hassle and they're more commonly set by number of turns with things installed. For K5/K6 you turn the pins in till they lightly bottom out then back out 2¼ turns and set the lock nut. If the pins are too far in, the clutch will slip under normal/forward torque. I mention K5/K6 because that's what I know. I think K7/K8 is set the same number of turns but no guarantee. However the K5/K6 New Model Update Seminar says "it is critical to ensure proper clutch adjustment at ½ turns back from lightly bottomed." So the 2¼ turns value isn't set in stone.

In your case I'd recommend backing the pins out 3 or 4 turns as I assume that the back-torque limiting feature isn't important, at least right now. This will disable the feature and remove it from consideration. You can worry about it later.

As already mentioned, unlike K5/K6 there's no adjustment other than bleeding to get any air out. Aside from the back-torque limiter slipping I wonder if there's some sort of issue with exhaust heat getting to the clutch fluid line.

Am I right in assuming that you have the K7 service manual?

 

[Kgermanton]

The three pins adjust the back-torque limiter. The service manual procedure to set them is to remove the clutch hub/plates/pressure plate assembly and set the pins using feeler gauges where the pins emerge from the hub. The service manual spec is the same for K5/K6 cable actuator and K7/K8 hydraulic. This is a hassle and they're more commonly set by number of turns with things installed. For K5/K6 you turn the pins in till they lightly bottom out then back out 2¼ turns and set the lock nut. If the pins are too far in, the clutch will slip under normal/forward torque. I mention K5/K6 because that's what I know. I think K7/K8 is set the same number of turns but no guarantee. However the K5/K6 New Model Update Seminar says "it is critical to ensure proper clutch adjustment at ½ turns back from lightly bottomed." So the 2¼ turns value isn't set in stone.

In your case I'd recommend backing the pins out 3 or 4 turns as I assume that the back-torque limiting feature isn't important, at least right now. This will disable the feature and remove it from consideration. You can worry about it later.

As already mentioned, unlike K5/K6 there's no adjustment other than bleeding to get any air out. Aside from the back-torque limiter slipping I wonder if there's some sort of issue with exhaust heat getting to the clutch fluid line.

Am I right in assuming that you have the K7 service manual?

wow you really know this stuff. Best I info I’ve seen. I’ll look tomorrow what manual i have. I wasn’t able to see anything regarding the torque limiter pins. I will adjust them 3.5 turns out to make them irrelevant like you mentioned. When I installed my new master I bled all the air out and looked for ways the line could get hot and I don’t. See any. My clutch line and slave is ok the opposite side of my exhaust. I changed to a Tilton master and the recommendation of racers because they are less likely to create pressure (one way valve cap) I think. Great info, I really appreciate it.

 

[Todd_Sails]

This is all by memory, I'm not looking any of this up as I type it.
OP, please read this carefully. Or- you could keep throwing money at it, something will stick LOL.

OK, I'm no master on this, but I have worked on my clutch. As Bill says, (the K7- which means 2007 BTW), is the same as the K5/6- they just did away with the cable and put in a Master Cylinder/hydraulic.

I've rebuilt my clutch when I added the ring from the 750 clutch that eliminated my clutch chatter.

It it's like mine, the clutch is engaged/disengaged by a Rod the goes thru the shaft that holds the clutch.
That rod is pushed on (cable of hydraulic) from the end of the rod near the countersprocket on the left/opposite side of the engine. Still with me? Good.
That rod has a screw and locknut on the outside of the clutch basket- under the inspection cap cover. It can be adjusted w/o taking the whole case off. Just buy removing the cap.

** When you said 3 screws/pins- I was like 'What?'
Bill even stated: 'The three pins adjust the back-torque limiter. The service manual procedure to set them is to remove the clutch hub/plates/pressure plate assembly and set the pins using feeler gauges where the pins emerge from the hub. '
* this is NOT the clutch adjustment! ?

When I rebuilt my clutch (for the known chatter of a K5/6 clutch), I left these alone!!! LOL

Now, if you've been driving/riding with a slipping clutch? You may have burned up new plates

The Clutch adjustment is in 3 parts on the K5/6.
The screw on the end of the rod is turned in until you feel contact, then backed out a 1/4 turn.
Here's where it differs and the K7 (2007) has no cable. Then adjust the lower cable adjuster on the casing,
Then the upper cable adjuster on the lever, leaving 5-10mm play in the lever.

Good luck

 

[Kgermanton]

This is all by memory, I'm not looking any of this up as I type it.
OP, please read this carefully. Or- you could keep throwing money at it, something will stick LOL.

OK, I'm no master on this, but I have worked on my clutch. As Bill says, (the K7- which means 2007 BTW), is the same as the K5/6- they just did away with the cable and put in a Master Cylinder/hydraulic.

I've rebuilt my clutch when I added the ring from the 750 clutch that eliminated my clutch chatter.

It it's like mine, the clutch is engaged/disengaged by a Rod the goes thru the shaft that holds the clutch.
That rod is pushed on (cable of hydraulic) from the end of the rod near the countersprocket on the left/opposite side of the engine. Still with me? Good.
That rod has a screw and locknut on the outside of the clutch basket- under the inspection cap cover. It can be adjusted w/o taking the whole case off. Just buy removing the cap.

** When you said 3 screws/pins- I was like 'What?'
Bill even stated: 'The three pins adjust the back-torque limiter. The service manual procedure to set them is to remove the clutch hub/plates/pressure plate assembly and set the pins using feeler gauges where the pins emerge from the hub. '
* this is NOT the clutch adjustment! ?

When I rebuilt my clutch (for the known chatter of a K5/6 clutch), I left these alone!!! LOL

Now, if you've been driving/riding with a slipping clutch? You may have burned up new plates

The Clutch adjustment is in 3 parts on the K5/6.
The screw on the end of the rod is turned in until you feel contact, then backed out a 1/4 turn.
Here's where it differs and the K7 (2007) has no cable. Then adjust the lower cable adjuster on the casing,
Then the upper cable adjuster on the lever, leaving 5-10mm play in the lever.

Good luck

Thank you for the post. I barely get to even damage the clutch as I get less than one lap under power with the clutch slipping. I tried to follow your post as closely as possible. I’m guessing the three tq limiter pins can’t be adjusted through the window so should I snug them up and leave them? I’m not sure where they should be. Then you mentioned you can adjust the clutch free play with the screw in the middle of the basket? I was told their is no adjustment on the hydraulic system. Can you confirm that? Thanks!

 

[billv]

The lifter pin adjustment is on 3-43 & 3-44 of the K7 service manual. As stated, this procedure is a PITA and the number of turns method is commonly used instead. There's a downloadable writeup about the K5/K6 clutch mod that Todd mentions. It includes some discussion of the number of turns lifter pin adjustment. But I'm not sure that it will do you any good.

 

[Todd_Sails]

Thank you for the post. I barely get to even damage the clutch as I get less than one lap under power with the clutch slipping. I tried to follow your post as closely as possible. I’m guessing the three tq limiter pins can’t be adjusted through the window so should I snug them up and leave them? I’m not sure where they should be. Then you mentioned you can adjust the clutch free play with the screw in the middle of the basket? I was told their is no adjustment on the hydraulic system. Can you confirm that? Thanks!

I'm not sure on the K7. Is the slave cylinder on the left side, counter sprocket side and push on a rod that goes thru the shaft that hold the clutch basket?
Is is also a 'slipper clutch too' right?

Anyways, try and find those pages that Bill mentions. He is the SuperGuru when it comes to anything like this.
There is a good thread in the stickies on Gixxer.com for the K5/6 clutch mod, diagrams, etc.

 

[billv]

Here's the K5/K6 clutch mod instructions with a few updates. The lifter pin adjustment is near the end. But, as stated, I really don't think there's much in it for you.

P.S. Suzuki seems to emphasize setting all three pins to the same depth. With the service manual procedure, I'd think that a depth gauge would give better results than feeler gauges.