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I didn’t see that you had a question and came to your own conclusion which I pretty much agreed with. ;)
I don’t see how you would lose too much oil through the system, but who knows. Running too high of an oil level could increase the windage and aerosolized oil in the crankcase which would then make it out your exhaust, but again, it seems to be self correcting as the oil level drops.
I am still amazed that you developed 6hp from the mod. Not doubting, but just surprised. Especially knowing that the vacuum through the pair valve is developed mostly at low to mid rpms and falls off at high rpms.
 

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Discussion Starter #22
I didn’t see that you had a question and came to your own conclusion which I pretty much agreed with. ;)
I don’t see how you would lose too much oil through the system, but who knows. Running too high of an oil level could increase the windage and aerosolized oil in the crankcase which would then make it out your exhaust, but again, it seems to be self correcting as the oil level drops.
I am still amazed that you developed 6hp from the mod. Not doubting, but just surprised. Especially knowing that the vacuum through the pair valve is developed mostly at low to mid rpms and falls off at high rpms.
JCW- Regarding the gains, and your statement of the PAIR mostly working at the lower RPMS?
I explained this I think it was my LiterBike 2.0 thread.
It is the solenoid that controls the PAIR system via input from the ECU regarding rpm, and when the PAIR/solenoid system is actually open or closed- controlled by the ECU.
But when you BYPASS the solenoid, and hook it up rather than simply blocking it- like (so many do), the actual reed valves in the head continue to pull a vacuum from the venturi effect.
In this case, it is NOT only limited to idle and lower Rpms, like when it is hooked up thru the solenoid controlled my the ECU.
I posted a link to a video where it showed a vacuum gauge that continued to climb thru the Rpms. Also objectively proven When you don't go thru the actual soleoid controlled by the ECU.
It's there, it's cheap, it's easy to do, it's reproducbile and dyno proven.
 

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Discussion Starter #23
Are you asking for help with the red light or just commenting on your situation? This post is kind of hard to understand in some ways. There are a lot of problems with grammar which makes for a hard read, then the long drawn out comments make for an even harder read. I suggest cleaning up the results portion of this regarding the PAIR/Sucker MOD, then starting a new thread for the red light.
I get ya EVL.
I always try to work on my grammar. It's hard when English is your first language LOL.
I posted it here b/c I think It may have been related to my whole PAIR valve sucker Mod thing in the first place.
Rode it to work this morning, from idle to over a hundred (empty highway turn) it hasn't came on again.
 

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Here's an interesting video.
Perhaps the vacuum developed in the crankcase is enough to maintain a full dyno pull...
Either way, awesome job findings/confirming almost free hp!
 

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Discussion Starter #25 (Edited)

Here's an interesting video.
Perhaps the vacuum developed in the crankcase is enough to maintain a full dyno pull...
Either way, awesome job findings/confirming almost free hp!
I've seen this before.
A lot going on here.
He explains what the ECU flash he uses means and is really doing- which is just turning the FI light off the dash when disconnecting the PAIR solenoid.
He then explains how they sijply 'block it off' with the plug cap where the air is actually being drawn into the system at.- This is a really simple, low cost/no cost way to do it.
He then goes in to why you want to block it from drawing ambient air when dyno tuning.- Great, all this has been known, etc.

This is NOT the Pair Valve Sucker Mod!
Yes, he tries to show that at really high rpms, With the wire plug off the solenoid for the PAIR valve- it quits sucking. Maybe on THAT bike, with the Solenoid still in place, and simply taking the wire off. The air is STILL going thru the PAIR solenoid valve.

On my mod, it's not going thru the PAIR solenoid at all.

My dyno graph CLEARLY shows the HP/TQ increase- especially from mid range UP! at max, it's still showing the gains! There was NOTHING else done or changed between the 2 graphs.
It really surprised and freaked out the Dyno owner/operator. He was shocked!

Brocks video- a nice one at that, and my post w/ the graphs; while both discussing the PAIR valve system- is like comparing apples to oranges.

** Edit- I just realized that the graphs are not laid on top of each other. I have inspected them however, and it clearly shows gains across the graph length.

- The Peak #'s are there, and show the gain however. If what Brock said was true on my system, - he claims the vacuum quits at higher rpms, THUS, the Peak should show NO gain. Mine clearly does. reproducible.
There were a few more pulls, all about the same each way.
We did n't print those on top of each other b/c it looks like crap on paper. the cleaned up results graph is better.
 

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Discussion Starter #26
Also, by looking at the essentially identical A/F ratio graphs,
it clearly shows that you may have to block the pair valve if it's drawing it's air from the air box- ambient.

But on my PVSM ( I like that= Pair valve sucker mod),
it's drawing more vacuum only from the crankcase. Unless you have some leaky seal pulling air- there is little to no 'air' being pulled in.
CLEARLY why my a/f ratio stayed the same, Blocked vs. PVSM!
I honestly thought it was going to change what the a/f sensot Rod would see/sense when the PVSM was on. I was't going to worry about it b/c it's not what the combustion chamber sees/senses/combusts anyway- it after that in the exhaust port.
Still, no change in A/F ratio.

HOWEVER, it probably does change the A/F ratio when the system is sucking a larger volume of ambient air thru the air box- like a stock bike does.
 

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- The Peak #'s are there, and show the gain however. If what Brock said was true on my system, - he claims the vacuum quits at higher rpms, THUS, the Peak should show NO gain. Mine clearly does. reproducible.
There were a few more pulls, all about the same each way.
We did n't print those on top of each other b/c it looks like crap on paper. the cleaned up results graph is better.
I don't question your results... just trying to reconcile the fact that vacuum fails with higher rpm and your results...
I don't buy the fact that the engines are that much different. All pair valve systems are essentially the same across manufacturers for the last decade or more.
I DO understand that the video is about BLOCKING the valve and no horsepower increase VS your crankcase breather to pair valve mod. Different mods for sure. My intention though was to point out the loss of vacuum at higher rpms. Brock explains that the solenoid valve is a normally open valve when unplugged. Then demonstrates how the vacuum fails at high rpm's.

Like I said above, MY GUESS is that enough crankcase vacuum is created at the lower and mid rpms that the engine maintains the horsepower advantage through redline for a single dyno pull.
I would LIKE to see if a prolonged high rpm run (or a run through the gears 1-6) maintains the horsepower advantage or is the extended time at higher rpm enough to lose the crankcase vacuum advantage? Either way, though, free horsepower for a nice run through a gear or two is sweet!
 

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I posted in my LiterBike 2.0 thread about one of my winter projects a few months ago, about trying the PAIR valve sucker mod I had heard/read about.

Then, the usual suspects of course gave me at least 15 ways I could plug the PAIR valve, etc.- It's in my thread.

I've been riding with the Pair Valve Sucker Mod since this last winter break- w/ no problems.
To review- the 'MOD'- this one actually makes more HP/TQ- dyno proven by me today!
Take the Crankcase breather hose- usually ends to the air box to vent.
extend it- new hose, etc. to a 'T' fitting up at the PAIR valves on the top of the valve/engine cover.
The Hoses that go to the selenoid, and then to the air cleaner box- get rid of those.
Use appropriate size hoses from the 'T' to each of the PAIR reed valves.
* I am too cheap to Buy a bypass resister, and too lazy to make my own; so I just leave the PAIR solenoid with the wires from the harness attached- doing nothing. This way, no FI light!

This is really a MOD- that increases HP/TQ, for next to nothing $$ wise.

OK- Dynoed the Pair Valve Sucker mod today:

So, nearly +6HP (5.78) and +3 Ft/Lbs (3.26) Increase- with the Pair sucker Mod!
Same day, Back to back dyno runs, same dyno.

Actually more HP increase than I had read on bike threads!

Here are before and after dyno, same day, same dyno, bike never left the dyno to Plug, then hook back up.
We actually wanted to see that A/F ratio, to see if it made a difference.
++ My K5 has NO O2 sensor- cannot correct the mixture on the fly.
** This MOD does NOT change the A/F mixture the combustion chamber sees; b/c the Pair sucker mod ONLY puts a small amount of air, ON THE EXHAUST SIDE ONLY!!
But if your bike HAS an O2 sensor (newer models)- then this Could mess with that system, BUT
That being said:
The A/F ratios were virtually identical: Plugged, or PAIR valve sucker Mod anyways!

Here are the dynos:
PAIR valve plugged:


PAIR valve Sucker mod operational:


If you have a bike with a PAIR valve system, and you haven't already 'blocked it off' with some expensive little carbon fiber or billet plates, or doing it easy with a marble, plug, etc., You're leaving some easy/LOW $ HP on the table.

Do what you want.
I'm really glad I had read up on this and kept reading it was good for a dyno proven ~ 2 hp on a motor like mine.
Low, Low cost of some tubing, and 'T' fitting- and I got nearly 6 HP for it! 6 RWHP!
I may have too look more into this and try it on my k6 1k
 

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Discussion Starter #29
I don't question your results... just trying to reconcile the fact that vacuum fails with higher rpm and your results...
I don't buy the fact that the engines are that much different. All pair valve systems are essentially the same across manufacturers for the last decade or more.
I DO understand that the video is about BLOCKING the valve and no horsepower increase VS your crankcase breather to pair valve mod. Different mods for sure. My intention though was to point out the loss of vacuum at higher rpms. Brock explains that the solenoid valve is a normally open valve when unplugged. Then demonstrates how the vacuum fails at high rpm's.

Like I said above, MY GUESS is that enough crankcase vacuum is created at the lower and mid rpms that the engine maintains the horsepower advantage through redline for a single dyno pull.
I would LIKE to see if a prolonged high rpm run (or a run through the gears 1-6) maintains the horsepower advantage or is the extended time at higher rpm enough to lose the crankcase vacuum advantage? Either way, though, free horsepower for a nice run through a gear or two is sweet!
Right,
Thank you for having a good conversation about this with me. And for others.
Rocks video did not show anything about removing the solenoid and not going pulling through the solenoid. I did hear him state that it is normally open until the ECU tells it to close.
well I do not have a Dino graph showing my motor at near red line for more time to in fact see if it stays under vacuum and a slightly higher horsepower result.
I feel that on my motor it does. If and when I go to Dino again Again I may just do that and stay near red line for 20 or 30 seconds.
In actuality I never ride my bike that way anyway. I don’t keep it anywhere near red line and certainly not for very long maybe going through the gears.
The read valves are in the head. They Dr., Venturi vacuum affect all the time. The higher the RPM the more the vacuum because of the more flow through the system. That’s the only way to work. There’s no parasitic loss or drag on the engine to produce the vacuum. It is only the Venturi effect.
As I said I wish I had left it near red line for 15 or 20 seconds to see that the increase is still there. At the time we did not think to do that.

Please excuse all the typos – I am using voice to text on my phone.
 
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