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Discussion Starter #1
2013 600, New to me, 9,650 miles. New sprockets & chain. Sprockets and axle nut torqued to spec in service manual. Wheel alignment within .10 mm as measured with vernier caliper at axle blocks. Bearings rotate smooth, no drag nor play. Axial and radial runout on wheel within spec. Axle as well but I don't have v-blocks so had to rotate it in the swing arm (not ideal).

I'm kinda stumped, I do have an axle on order but not convinced that's it. The tire is crap and I will be replacing but that is not causing what I'm seeing. It almost seems like it's the hub. I attached a link to the video, hope it works. What do you guys think?

Wobble
 

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SuperMod of the North
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The wheel looks true so I am led to believe the axle is also good. The tire is deformed for sure. The sprocket wobbles back and forth as well. I am wondering if you have something misaligned in the Cush drive.
 
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Linky no workie for me.
It shows a picture, click on the delta, and it just goes to that never ending circle, and/or gives me an error.
 

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Either something not right with the cush bushings (like one of them not seated all the way in) or the sprocket is bent. I'll bet you don't have one of the cush bushings popped in right. They have 2 arrow head shaped "push in's" that need to be pushed through holes in the rim. I'm betting one or more of them aren't pushed all the way in. What brand sprocket it is? Possible it was bent in shipping?
 

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Yes, that tire is moving a bit funny. I'm not sure I would trust riding it. The wheel looks straight.

Can you grab the sprocket and move it back and forth?

1. The bearing in the cush drive hub (#15) is bad. (easy to check with your fingers) or

2. The spacer in the cush drive is missing (#14) or the washer under the nut (#10). Both will allow you to torque to the proper value but it will be bottomed on the threads so still loose. (I'm assuming you have both outer spacers in place)

294699
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The sprocket is a steel Vortex and I'll agree it does look like it could be bent but I think that's a result of the something in the hub not being right. Regardless, I'll pull it and confirm it's flat.

I did have the cush drive apart a gave it a good cleaning, thought I had it all back together properly however I can see how I could have missed having the arrow head pushins seated properly. Will verify that as well.

Todd - Sorry the link didn't work for you, had a feeling that may happen for some. While testing it, I ran into the same issue on a different device. Do you, or anyone else have any recommendations for posting videos on this site. Prior to posting, I checked the FAQs and site rules and all they mentioned was sharing a link to YouTube. I am one of the few that does not post to YouTube. o_O

Thank you all for the replies and suggestions - I'll pull the wheel shortly and let you all know the result.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Hey rv6john - Just saw your post. The image above is a little different than my service manual (Suzuki). Parts seem to be the same but illustration and numbers are different - as such, I will just use the name of the parts.

The wheel bearing does rotate smoothly and doesn't seem to bind at all. I need to double check the sprocket mounting drum bearing though which I believe is 15 in your diagram. Grabbing the sprocket, it does seem to have some play in it when mounted (everything is still mounted in its ridable state). The cush drive spacer (retainer in my manual and I believe 14 in your diagram) is in place and orientation is correct. I do have the rear axle nut washer (10) and both swingarm spacers as well.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Verified sprocket is straight and flat. My sprocket drum does not have any arrow head shaped "push in's" nor does my rim have any holes that they would push through. I attached a couple of pics. I double checked them all and everything seems to be put together properly with regard to the wheel dampers.

Both the wheel bearings and the drum bearing rotate smoothly and do not have any lateral play. In fact, they all look relatively new. After checking everything, I put the wheel back on, torqued it to spec and could NOT move the sprocket this time (I may have misspoke earlier). With the wheel off the bike, it does wobble (where the drum meets the wheel) when pressure is applied to the sprocket. However, if I remove the retainer (#5 from my diagram) it does not wobble at all. Not sure if this is normal or not but got me thinking maybe one of the bearings is installed incorrectly (maybe cockeyed if that's even possible)? I used a depth gauge to measure the depth of the each bearing to the surface to see if their was any deviation. There was some but less than half a mm at most. Could this still be a possibility?

Finally, my swingarm spacer on the nut side is gouged and every time I tighten the nut/washer down to spec, there are small aluminum shavings from the washer digging into the spacer. I'm wondering if (1) the washer is the correct one (thickness wise) and (2) if enough material has been removed from the spacer that I am in fact running out of threads on the axle (as the washer is essentially digging through the spacer. It's not terrible deep though.
 

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Does the chain tension vary as the wheel rotates? Can you move the wheel right/left on the axle by hand?

Using the #s in rvjohn's drawing, I'm not sure about yours but I think the swingarm, an inner plate, and the chain adjuster block sit between #10 and #12. The wear on your block suggests that the nut is against it instead of against the #10 washer. So I'm not sure where the washer is. The nut would bottom out on the axle threads if #12 was missing. I think if #14 is missing and the threads don't bottom out, there will be an axial force on the #15 bearing inner/outer races that will lead to rapid failure.

Can you remove the sprocket, reinstall things, and spin the wheel by hand? It will be awkward because the chain will be in the way but you're looking to see if the surfaces of the drum wobble like what your video shows. A dial indicator would be useful but in its absence you might be able to rig up an indicating wire that is attached to the swingarm. I'm suspicious of the #15 bearing either being misinstalled or in the process of failing.

You could also remove the cushions (sprocket back on), reinstall things, and check if you can wobble the sprocket by hand. That would be an indication of something not right at the bearing.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks billv - I'm suspicious of #15 as well not being seated properly. However, a spacer (#12 and not missing), an inner plate, the swingarm, and then the chain adjuster block sit between the axle washer (#10) and finally the axle nut (#9). The washer is in the correct position per rvjohns diagram and the nut is against it (not the adjuster block directly). Actually, per his drawing - I do have all pieces and they are in the correct position.

I do have a dial indicator and will check to see if the drum wobbles per your instruction above and let you know.
 

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Not sure if this is normal or not but got me thinking maybe one of the bearings is installed incorrectly (maybe cockeyed if that's even possible)? I used a depth gauge to measure the depth of the each bearing to the surface to see if their was any deviation. There was some but less than half a mm at most. Could this still be a possibility?
The bearing is the only thing that makes the sprocket carrier run true. If it is installed slightly off, the difference will be amplified may times at the edge of the sprocket.

I would pull the seal out of the sprocket carrier and make sure that bearing (#15) is fully seated. You can tell with a drift and hammer pretty quickly as a seated bearing will give a very solid feel and sound when you hit the outer race.

You might be able to see if it is seated from the cush drive side, but I don't have one handy to check.

I'm also curious how the nut is shaving aluminum from the axle block if the washer is installed as @billv mentioned.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Shavings w/Washer Installed

Unfortunately, I no longer have a bearing press or an effective way to remove seals without potentially causing damage. Still going to follow billv's guidance and post the results. Then, likely going to take the drum to someone who can check/replace the #15 bearing and seal and hopefully that fixes it.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
billv - I placed the dial indicator at a 90 degree angle to the most flat are I could find on the hub which happened to be just outside the dust seal. I found the lowest spot on the hub (per the dial indicator) and set that spot zero (looks like I missed by .008 mm but it's touchy). Then did a full revolution from that point - this is where the video picks up.

Looks like it's about .390 (.382 + the -.008) in total runout. Of course this very near the axle and as rv6john indicated, I can see how less than half a mm near the axle would be amplified at the outside diameter of the sprocket.

rv6john - I couldn't tell from the cush drive side if #15 was seated properly.

Consensus seems to be #15 is misaligned. Looks like I will take it to a shop to have that verified and if so, replaced. Hopefully, that will fix the issue.

Any other thoughts? By they way, thanks for the help in trying to diagnose this.

Runout
 

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Good that you have an indicator. Yours is actually the newer digital non-dial type. You might need a .5" or 1" extension on the plunger but it ought to be possible to indicate off of the flanges associated with the sprocket studs. They are located further from the axle CL. The indicator will need to be mounted sufficiently rigidly to not move when you're switching from flange to flange.

Per what john and I've been saying, the nut should run up against the washer which, in turn, presses against the chain adjusting block. Thus any wear on the block would be from the washer, not the nut.

It's not as big a deal with the #15 sprocket drum bearing but the other wheel bearings are oftentimes improperly installed as a result of using the wrong installation tools. Note that the Suzuki tools simultaneously press the inner and outer races. Pressing the #15 bearing in by the inner race could potentially lead to a misinstalled outer race.
 

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Shavings w/Washer Installed

Unfortunately, I no longer have a bearing press or an effective way to remove seals without potentially causing damage.
You are over thinking it. Frequently, you can pop the seal out with a screwdriver without damage or worst case you buy a new seal.

Just sit the cush drive sprocket up on a solid surface and smack the outside of the bearing race with a drift and hammer. You should get solid feel and thud sound if the race is seated in the hub.

Yes, I'm sure sure some could screw it up, but I have faith in humanity.

The seals are usually not that tight and I've reinstalled some with my fingers. Otherwise a little care, possibly a big socket, and a hammer does the job.
 
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Don't be scared of the hammer, Northern hillbillies like myself don't have fancy ass tools and most anything is a hammer. Just remember, you aren't trying to ring the bell at the carnival. The common name for a hammer in my garage is tapometer. The operative word being tap. If you want a margin of error find something brass to use as a drift so you have less chance of marring the work. A 8oz ball pein hammer is a nice.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
RV6john - you're right - I did end up going a little redneck on it (originally from Texas). Just used the claw end of my hammer and popped out the seal. I used a punch and #15 did sound seated properly. I then started looking at the wheel bearings and one is orange and one is black (the seal just inside the race). I just find it hard to believe the factory installed the bearings incorrectly so I was hoping they looked replaced - thus far none really have. I went ahead and ordered a bearing driver and some new bearings and just am going to redo everything - it's the principle now.

I am kinda mad at myself as I had all this stuff when I had my first track bike (Ducati 749) about 8 years ago. Got rid of it all as life got in the way and had no time for any fun stuff. Have since changed jobs and moved, realized I'm one hour from a racetrack and got the itch again - so here we go again :rolleyes: However, parts take sooooo long to arrive these days. I was hoping to get on the track before they shut down for the winter, not sure that's going to happen now.

I do appreciate the help. WIll keep you guys posted.
 
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