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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been wondering for awile. When does it benifit (ie lower lap times) to drift or "back it in"? are the two terms interchangable? it appears that in road racing (motogp, wsb, etc) when they do drift the bike the lean angle is greatly reduced, reducing speed as well how ever super moto does it alot, and is the norm for the style of racing. Why? Both being on pavement why the diffrence in style? That being said sliding the bike most certainly has the WOW factor going for it but when does it win races? It has been the standard for circle track for a very long time, what makes it fast for the dicipline of racing? Thank you for your intellegent responses and insight. Moderators I hope I put this in the right catigory but if not feel free to move.
 

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When roadracers drift, it is typically on tight, 180-degree turns. However, they do so on lesser turns as well. The benefit here is that by "backing in" the rear, the bike points in a forward line beyond the apex sooner than if the racer had simply leaned the turn. As such, the racer can get on the throttle earlier, achieving quicker exits. Although some speed is lost going in, what's gained coming out is significantly more.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
so it sounds like they are trying to get the bike pointed down the strait away sooner? which was one thought I had. why is is so much more drastic for the supermoto guys? just a much tighter course? In watching motogp any backing in is small compared to supermoto which is much closer to circle track racing in how far they let the rear slide out. I had wondered if it is due to a huge power difference (250ish for motgp vs 70ish for supermoto) but that to me is counter intuitive, I would think with less power you would want to maintain speed rather then sacrifice corner speed for a longer strait.
 

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Racers don't use the term "drift". You either back it into a turn or spin it up coming up. I've have only backed it in a few times while trying not to get on the brake first so I kinda had to so I could square up the turn with a competitor close to me. Spinning up the rear on the exit of a turn is fun because you can body steer the bike some.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
you da man, it sounds like in your case backing it in was mostly a biproduct of the late braking, correct? where as spining it up is a biproduct of acceleration upon exiting the corner and not really part of the stratigy of getting through the corner quickly. and that fits well with what I see the roadracers do. what is the difference with the supermoto guys where it seems like it is part of the plan for handling the corner?
 

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you da man, it sounds like in your case backing it in was mostly a biproduct of the late braking, correct? where as spining it up is a biproduct of acceleration upon exiting the corner and not really part of the stratigy of getting through the corner quickly. and that fits well with what I see the roadracers do. what is the difference with the supermoto guys where it seems like it is part of the plan for handling the corner?
Supermoto is a whole other ball game. I've never done it but it appears that those guys take backing it in to another planet. By looking at the track design for supermoto it seems backing it in is a must to square up the corner. You can't accelerate as much on the side of the tire as you can on the center of the tire. It looks as if those guys are backing it in to square up the corner and by doing so they are able to get to the "meaty" part of the tire slightly sooner so they can get on the gas earlier. That's just my point of view. Samething applies to sportbikes on the track. The sooner you can get towards the middle of the tire, the sooner and harder you can apply the throttle.
 

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Great explanations. I love watching those Moto Gp bikes slide around. I showed my dad the other day and he was pretty amazed. We actually had a conversation about it. I'll have to show him this thread. Got any track vids youdaman?
 

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Another thing to consider is the "apples and oranges" difference between the two sports. Supermoto is raced on go-kart style tracks, with a completely different machine with a different riding position.

I've watched a good bit of supermoto racing recently, and a lot of their backing it in seems to deal with the short track they're on. To get any speed at all, they must wait until the absolute last minute before decelerating, and accelerate as soon as possible. Watch closely, and a lot of them seem to try and line up the straights right at or just after the apex.

As far as riding position, where you're at on a superbike makes it handle. With their dirt-bike inspired frames, you can't move your weight around as much on the supermotos. I've raced a good bit of dirt, and your options for cornering them are "left foot peg" and "right foot peg". With our crouched riding position, you can pretty much swing off the inside of your machine in the corners. Seems to me their riding position hinders that a bit, they just can't get low on the machine like we can.

And, back to track design. Those corners are TIGHT. True to their off-road roots, they slide through the corners to line up early. Watch any off-road race (Bud's Creek comes to mind, tight cornering there with open straights) and they're doing the same thing. I wonder how many supermoto guys came from the dirt? motogp tracks tend to sweep a bit more in the corners, not show you your own under-tail in every turn, making backing it in less of a necessity. Spinning it up is always fun though, and nothing displays the raw power and finesse of our bikes like a bike pulling a wheelie while riding on the side of the tire exiting a turn. Mmmm-mmmmm

At any rate, needless to say I want to try the supermoto thing just once. My cousin is getting his son into it, so I can't wait to see how that goes.

On another note, the kings of "drift" racing were the old Harley flat-trackers. I still love watching those guys.
 

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Great explanations. I love watching those Moto Gp bikes slide around. I showed my dad the other day and he was pretty amazed. We actually had a conversation about it. I'll have to show him this thread. Got any track vids youdaman?
Here's a friend of mine backing it in.
 

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