[Corge]

This topic is regarding trail braking on the limit -- i.e. in the sense that the rear wheel slides around.

How is this maneuver performed? I know what trail braking is, but I'm wondering if the rear wheel actually locks completely up, or does it merely drag, while still rotating -- although slower than what it should?

If the rear wheel actually locks up and the clutch is not engaged, wouldn't that require a slipper clutch as the engine tries to turn the wheel while it is locked?

See this video for an example (possibly bad example) of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hzrbntlSVY&feature=channel_page

This guy slides the rear wheel to "point" the bike into the corner, although I have a strong feeling he could go faster without doing that, it looks like fun, and regardless of whether or not I'm going to try this myself I'm interested in the technical details.

What is that clatter noise? Is that the sound of the engine trying to turn the wheel with the wheel locked?

 

[Mr645]

how about those passes at 3:06 ? Nutz

But as for your question, trail braking when the rear steps out, like you see on WSB the rear wheel is still spinning, just slower then the bike is moving.

 

[Corge]

how about those passes at 3:06 ? Nutz

But as for your question, trail braking when the rear steps out, like you see on WSB the rear wheel is still spinning, just slower then the bike is moving.

How do you find that exact sweet spot? Is there some distinct sensation, or do you merely sense it by that the rear steps out?

How about that clatter noise? Is that when he messes up and actually locks up the wheel instead of just dragging it while still turning?

 

[tatsu]

That would happen to me all the time when racing my dirt bike at the my friends track. What was happening was i was braking the rear wheel so hard i was staling the engine but since i still had a lot of forward momentum the engine would keep kicking over again. but in a manner like that in the video. I really didn't like it happening... felt like i was loosing control and sometimes i would stall and fall behind in the race.

 

[justin]

that clatter noise that you hear, is the chain it happened to me once when i locked up my rear tire once when i was messing around.

 

[Misti]

This topic is regarding trail braking on the limit -- i.e. in the sense that the rear wheel slides around.

How is this maneuver performed? I know what trail braking is, but I'm wondering if the rear wheel actually locks completely up, or does it merely drag, while still rotating -- although slower than what it should?

If the rear wheel actually locks up and the clutch is not engaged, wouldn't that require a slipper clutch as the engine tries to turn the wheel while it is locked?

See this video for an example (possibly bad example) of what I mean:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hzrbntlSVY&feature=channel_page

This guy slides the rear wheel to "point" the bike into the corner, although I have a strong feeling he could go faster without doing that, it looks like fun, and regardless of whether or not I'm going to try this myself I'm interested in the technical details.

What is that clatter noise? Is that the sound of the engine trying to turn the wheel with the wheel locked?

Sounds like you guys are talking about two different things here. Trail braking is the act of using the brakes (usually just the front brake) beyond the entrance of the corner and then gradually releasing them around the apex. It has nothing to do with sliding the rear. Benefits include being able to go deeper and faster into the turn, however it is a hard technique to master and some of the problems associated with trail braking include too much weight on the front tire (sometimes resulting in tucking the front) or being really late with getting back on the gas and losing some of your mid corner speed.

Sliding the rear, which I think you are talking about, is a different technique all together. Usually accomplished by using the rear brake at the entrance of the corner or with downshifting quickly and letting out the clutch fast so that the rear tire slides.

You are correct in that the reason some racers do this is to "point" the bike in the direction that they want the bike to go. You are also correct in observing that they would probably go faster if they didn't do it...some guys don't have a problem with a bike that is sliding around and seem to make the technique work for them. For most of us it would probably just cause more problems!

I don't use the rear brake when racing unless I end up off track and I'd really rather not have the rear sliding around if I don't have too

Misti

 

[QUICKONE4U]

Just so you know "trail braking" is when you are on the brakes coming into a turn and are still on them after the turn in point but, you are gradually decreasing the braking force as you go, all the way up to the point of apex where you then get back on the gas. What you are talking about with the bike "kicking out" is due to being on the front brakes hard enough that it lightens the rear wheel enough that it starts to slide around while downshifting coming into the curve. This is also done by being on the rear brakes hard enough while braking hard with the front that it causes the rear to slide out some too.

 

[QUICKONE4U]

Damn I'm a slow typer, I was typing my reply before you posted:lol: Good info though:thumbup:

 

[Mister Tee]

Leave it to Misti to clear the air on this subject!

 

[JFM GSXR 750]

What's my line

Neither one of those guys were holding a line thru the turns and they were even on the other side of the road in almost every turn!!!:headscrat They went over the double yellow line far to often. How can you pass someone like that? You don't know what they are going to do momemt to moment. They were fast but their techque and form were terrible.:headshake That's a good example how NOT to ride on the street. HOLD your damn line please!:arsenal

 

[RiSensei]

Neither one of those guys were holding a line thru the turns and they were even on the other side of the road in almost every turn!!!:headscrat They went over the double yellow line far to often. How can you pass someone like that? You don't know what they are going to do momemt to moment. They were fast but their techque and form were terrible.:headshake That's a good example how NOT to ride on the street. HOLD your damn line please!:arsenal

1. They held lines, lines change when there is traffic!
2. technique and form was extremely good. The kid with the camera slid BOTH tires on one corner and saved it!
3. How not to ride on the street. I agree.
As far as talent, these boy's had a great deal.

 

[flyin low]

Not to smart but yes both them boys showed a great deal of talent

 

[Riz88]

If they keep riding like that on the streets all that skill is gonna wind up splattered on a car or a tree.

 

[Dark Suzuki]

both of these chaps are going to end up as hood ornaments on a truck.