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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I bought another CDI for my 2018 GSX-R 1000R , in UK and the ECU of that CDI has been flashed by MSG Racing in London UK ( whereas i live in France near Paris ) , to activate / deactivate some things , change some values and remap it to work correctly with an Akrapovic Full Exhaust Racing System i plan to have installed on my bike. .
i bought this CDI to swap with my original one ( to keep mine stock or slightly updated ) for when i'll ride the bike on track and i have a question about the temperature to choose , to trigger the fan, cause i got two different fan triggering temperature advises from two different pro companies .

the Standard triggering temperature chosen by Suzuki on those bikes for road use is 105° Celsius /221° Fahrenheit ( at least for the ones imported to France and maybe also in Europe ) but MSG Racing advised to set the temperature to 100° Celsius / 212° Fahrenheit.
They seem to be specialized on Suzuki bikes ( although they work on most other well known bike brands ) , they have a Racing team for the last 20 years and told me they flashed about 170 CDI/ ECU for these 2017 and on GSX-R 1000 / 1000 R .

They have customers Racing in UK where the weather is not particularly hot but they also have some who go Racing on circuits / tracks in Spain for example , where the weather can be much hotter ; especialy during summer !
I saw the Dynojet UK website , specifies to go to MSG Racing in London , for all things related to Dynojet / Dyno bench , as MSG Racing has a Dynojet bench ( i think they even have 2 of them if i remember what they told me ).

Usualy , i send the CDI / ECU of my bikes , when i need to have them flashed ( like for 2012-2016 GSX-R 750 and 1000 or 2017 ZX-10R ) to a well known company in the south of France ( NR Bike ) which also has a Dynojet bench and is used to flash ECUs for customers who are going on tracks / Racing and bring them their bikes to put on the Dyno bench for reprog and also all those who can't bring them their bike but send them their CDI to have the ECU flashed for a particular setup on their bikes .

So they do the same type of things as MSG Racing ( on top of being an Aprilia dealer in the south of France for = ) , although i don't know if they also have an official Racing team but the guy who works on their Dynojet bench in that company in France and who flashes the ECUs of the CDIs people send them for a reprog / flashing / remap , is going Racing quite a lot on different circuits .
They seem to be doing all that since 2011 , so their company is not as old as MSG Racing ( and they are not specialized in Suzuki Racing bikes unlike MSG Racing but NR Bike is more soecialized in Italian Racing bikes, although they also work on most well known brands ) but they have some experience with all that as well .

The guy who is taking care of all those things at NR Bike , advises to setup the fan triggering temperature on the 2017 and on GSX-R 1000 /1000 R , to 95° Celsius /203° Fahrenheit .
I live near Paris , so the temperature is a bit hotter than in London , especialy in summer , although i might go to some other circuits in different parts of France , so i don't know which temperature to choose between the 100° C / 212 ° F recommanded by MSG or the 95° C /203° F , recommanded by NR Bike for track use as well ?

Any advices about that ?

Are there any advantages and / or disadvantages to choose 95° Celsius /203° Fahrenheit , over 100° Celsius / 212° Fahrenheit when using that 2018 GSX-R 1000 R on tracks ?
 

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Well, you tell us. Why do they make these recommendations to alter the manufacturer's spec? You seem to be the one in contact with them, and I'd be as interested in the answer as you!?

Mine comes in at 104 and it seems very high to me, from a background with cars. For street riding, maybe it is merely so that it is not constantly noisy fan running around town, and in fact 95C would be better in any case. On a race track, fan noise is irrelevant. Maybe that is all it is, just noise? But ask them, if you are a customer then they can answer you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Well, you tell us. Why do they make these recommendations to alter the manufacturer's spec? You seem to be the one in contact with them, and I'd be as interested in the answer as you!?

Mine comes in at 104 and it seems very high to me, from a background with cars. For street riding, maybe it is merely so that it is not constantly noisy fan running around town, and in fact 95C would be better in any case. On a race track, fan noise is irrelevant. Maybe that is all it is, just noise? But ask them, if you are a customer then they can answer you.
The problem as I explained above , is that i get two different answers depending on which company , doing more or less the same type of things , at least for part of what they do !

That said , here is an article about MSG Racing UK , which seems to be involved in Racing since 2002 and from what i read , i suppose they know what they talk about , especialy as they are specialized in Suzuki Racing bikes , especialy the GSX-R !


" MSG Racing formed as a race team in 2002, alongside Gavin Reed’s then-small motorcycle repair business, working from home since 1999.

From national club racing to British Superbikes as well as racing in Spain, Gavin set out to help chosen riders on the way to achieve their racing dream, leading to over 50 club championships and some of the lads moving on to British Superbikes and the Isle of Man TT.



Today’s riders are all established MSG-supported riders and have been working with the team for several seasons now. All three are racing the latest model Suzuki GSX-R 1000 machines prepared and maintained by MSG Racing. For 2021, we have Chris Curtis, Sam Osborne and Will Harper in the 1000cc GP1 class with Thundersport GB."

From what i read in this article , MSG Racing seems to know what they talk about !

That said , NR Bike in France , which also has a Dynojet Bench and who flashes / reprog many ECUs , of differents Racing bikes models from different manufacturers ( although being specialized in Italian Racing bikes and also being an Aprilia official dealer ) , doesn't agree about the 100° C /213° F Fan triggering temperature and recommand 95° C /203° F !
So , why don't they agree ? Lol
 

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The problem as I explained above , is that i get two different answers
You've asked 'what temperature' and got two different answers.

I just asked 'why change Suzuki stock spec' and they might have the same answer to that.

With respect, it doesn't sound like you have actually asked them that. Until we know why they are saying it, it's difficult to comment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
You've asked 'what temperature' and got two different answers.

I just asked 'why change Suzuki stock spec' and they might have the same answer to that.

With respect, it doesn't sound like you have actually asked them that. Until we know why they are saying it, it's difficult to comment.
Sorry if i misunderstood you , i have not been sleeping for more than 24 hours and barely the two nights before due to the heat during the night here at the moment and also because i had many things to do as well at home .
Also, English is not my first language , so i might sometimes make mistakes not understanding correctly some things or simply not paying enough attention because i am being distracted by something.

So, you were asking why change suzuki stock specifications , In particular, , i suppose , about the temperature of the fan triggering since it is the subject of the topic and the answer i think is simple .
The stock fan triggering temperature chosen by Suzuki , for those bikes , is based on the fact they are made and sold mainly to be ridden on the road , as most users / owners of those bikes do , where the bike is far from having to cope with what it has to deal with when being used for racing on a circuit / track days , where they are pushed to their limits , what is not the case on the road ; at least not as much and not by most owners but more just by a bunch of riders .
For the past 20 years , at least in France , there has been fewer and fewer new Sportbikes sold to be used on the road / streets but more people than there used to ( although it doesn't fill the void left by the decrease of new sportbikes sales ) , buying some , to use them for track days; knowing most of them buy some second hand ones, whereas less and less people buy them new .
As an example , there has been 78% decrease in sportbikes registrations ( to get license plates to be able to ride them on the road / streets ) since the year 2000 !

So , to finish answer your question , i suppose they change the fan triggering temperature for all the riders who go on tracks , to be sure the bikes are cooled correctly enough to do not over heat when When the engine and the motorcycle in general is so stressed .
At least , that's how i see things but i could still try to ask them.
 

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I'll take a guess about why you get different opinions on fan on temperature, because it really is not very important.

I'll suggest that most serious "race bikes" do not have cooling fans at all. If the bike is being ridden at speed, it will provide much more air flow than the fan.

So the fan is to keep the temps in check at low speeds (in traffic) and at that point the charging system is not putting out much and the fan is drawing a lot of amps (it has it's own 15a fuse). This is one reason why you read of bikes dying when they get hot in traffic. The fan comes on and if the battery is weak, the system voltage will drop and the bike will die.

A healthy system will handle 240-250 F with no issues. I've seen a steady 230 F on a mid 90s air temperature track day (110-120 on the track?) without a problem.

These bikes run a 15psi system so as you can see, there is a margin even running plain water.

Just my opinion, but I'd leave it stock at 212F/105C fan on .

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That's a handy table!

I mean, personally, I'd set my cooling systems to 85C in a car, but there is a larger thermal inertia between the engine, coolant system and the large radiators possible.

In a bike, the thermal inertia is small and so the temperatures might ramp up very quickly under high load, and exceed the set temperature. But I really don't see why that would be different to a bike 'well-ridden' on the road.

I mean, if I set mine to 85C on the bike, the fan would simply run all the time, which TBH wouldn't be a big deal because it's not that noisy compared to some other bikes I have had. I guess the only annoyance would be that it makes my right leg hot! Might not be such a bad deal in winter, now that I am thinking about it, but I intend to be a fair-weather biker with this current machine!

My radiator is knackered and corroded, I was planning to replace it and I expect the temperature to be lower once I have done that, but at a 'good speed' on the road it is around 85 to 90C with the air flow around it and the engine which seems fine to me, and the small area the fan covers is enough to cool it stopped in traffic when idling. Though, recently, I have taken to flipping the 'run' button off then back on, leave it in 1st. Then I just have to crank and go, no need to faff with gears.
 

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Sorry if i misunderstood you...,
No worries, I was not trying to argue with you, just get to the interesting detail.

So , to finish answer your question , i suppose they change the fan triggering temperature for all the riders who go on tracks , to be sure the bikes are cooled correctly enough to do not over heat when When the engine and the motorcycle in general is so stressed .
At least , that's how i see things but i could still try to ask them.
I struggle to see why 'cooler' is 'better' though. The cooling system will sort itself out, I don't see why an engine would work better in a race if cooled to 95 than 105.

I think it is worth asking, if you have a direct contact to ask. That is the interesting detail!
 

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I struggle to see why 'cooler' is 'better' though. The cooling system will sort itself out, I don't see why an engine would work better in a race if cooled to 95 than 105.
I would bet money the the fan running with the bike at speed makes little to no difference in coolant temperature..

I also wonder why many think that cooler is better.
 
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I would bet money the the fan running with the bike at speed makes little to no difference in coolant temperature..

I also wonder why many think that cooler is better.
Yep. My feeling is that it's to keep the bike as cool as practical while it's in the pits.

Either that, or by making the fan come on all the time there is that little bit of extra electrically-assisted thrust to make the bike go 0.01mph faster!! ;)
 

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Yep. My feeling is that it's to keep the bike as cool as practical while it's in the pits.
Turning the bike off usually works.
 

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I agree with John. It really isn't a critical decision. Perhaps look at the level of racing you are talking about. If this is a bike just used for track days or is raced at the amateur level then run the fan at the OEM suggested temps - really, the bike is a stock bike with out lights & some go fast parts. You are likely to be gridded up and waiting for a few minutes and the fan will be of use. If this is a bike being raced professionally you may run want to with out it - more sophisticated teams will have portable blowers to keep the bike cool while waiting and as John said, it would not matter at speed.

The only advantage I could possibly think of to changing the operating temp of the bike may be it's effect on the viscosity of the oil but that is way beyond my experience. The only advantage I can see for not running a fan is a very small weight loss and less electrical draw on the system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I'll take a guess about why you get different opinions on fan on temperature, because it really is not very important.

I'll suggest that most serious "race bikes" do not have cooling fans at all. If the bike is being ridden at speed, it will provide much more air flow than the fan.

So the fan is to keep the temps in check at low speeds (in traffic) and at that point the charging system is not putting out much and the fan is drawing a lot of amps (it has it's own 15a fuse). This is one reason why you read of bikes dying when they get hot in traffic. The fan comes on and if the battery is weak, the system voltage will drop and the bike will die.

A healthy system will handle 240-250 F with no issues. I've seen a steady 230 F on a mid 90s air temperature track day (110-120 on the track?) without a problem.

These bikes run a 15psi system so as you can see, there is a margin even running plain water.

Just my opinion, but I'd leave it stock at 212F/105C fan on .

View attachment 298750
Thanks very much to you for your answer and to the orhers persons who replied as well, for their answers !
what you say is interesting and that is true i have heard about professional racing bikes not having fans or maybe more about some which have a fan that is not triggered automaticaly above a certain temperature but which is put ON or OFF with a switch button on the handle bar .

As a matter of fact if i asked the question , it is because i sent several CDI boxes i bought for several sportbikes i have on which i wanted to keep the stock ECU as it is stock but wanted to modify the ones i bought for different reasons .
First , if you are not French , maybe you don't know that until 2016 or so , France was one of the few stupid countries (lol ) , if not the only one ( but i think i read somewhere that there is one , two or three others where it is the case as well ) , every bike which had more than 100 hp , had to be limited / bridled to 100 hp , what means that my 2011-2016 GSX-Rs 750 ( or 2011-2022 in USA , as they are still sold there whereas because of pollution norms the GSX-R 750 and 600 are not sold in France anymore since 2016 and maybe in all Europe ; at least in the countried in EU which are part of the European Union ) and my 2012-2016 GSX-Rs 1000 were limited to something like 106 hp , so i wanted to remove the hp limitation on the ECUs of those CDIs i bought , especialy as i have a 2015 750 and a 2015 1000 that i am modifying to make them Tracks bikes only .

So as you know , there are several possibilities to have the ECUs modified , there are softwares and hardware you can buy like the Yoshimura or HRC kits , hardware boxes / CDI like Rapid bikes and softwares like Whoolich Racing , to modify your ECU yourself with a computer , or you can bring your bikes to a company which has a Dynojet Bench and they will flash the ECU after putting the bike on the Dyno bench .
That is what i find to be the best solution when you don't know how or don't want to buy the kits for doing it yourself with a computer but it can be an expensive solution , especialy if like me , there are very few companies , or even just one ( so no need for the company to make low prives as there are no competing companies around in the area ) , having a Dynojet bench for hundreds of miles around .
The other solution which is much cheaper ( having a GSXR put on a bench in the only company having one about 100 km from where i live , just to have the air / gas ratio modified to be optimized for a particular full exhaust system upgrade , costs 700 € !!!) , is to send your CDI box to have its ECU modified , to some companies which flash the ECUs using a software like Whoolich Racing and proposing to activate or deactivate some functions and have some sort of generic remap done , based on some they have done on the same model / years of bikes, using the same exhaust system , air filter ...etc and which they have put on a Dyno bench to optimize the air / gas ratio and then record the settings and maps in their software , to be able to use it , to flash the ECUs of the CDIs they are sent by customers with the same bike model / years and the same type of setup / equipment on their bike ( for example , a 2013 GSX-R 1000 with Yoshimura R-11 full exhaust system ) , as the one they have put on their Dyno bench .
The price the companies flashing ECUs like that ask , say for a 2013 GSX-R 1000 or 750 is about 200€ ( but they have a discount price for several months now , at 170 € ) and they propose several modifications which are available in the Whoolich Racing software , including modifying the Fan triggering temperature and in the 2 companies i talk about , with which i have been in contact ( MSG Racing in London UK and NR Bike in the south of France , one advises to set that triggering temperature to 100° C /212° F ( MSG Racing ) whereas the other , advises to set it ro 95° C / 203° F , whereas as i said, on that GSX-R 1000 /1000 R , the stock Fan triggering temperature is 105° C / 221° F .

So i wanted to know what to choose and try to understand why they propose different triggering temperature but the only answer i got from MSG Racing was something like " because 100° C is better than the stock 105° C , but 95° C is too low and will trigger the fan too often " and although i asked NR Bike about why they choose 95° C , the only answer i got for the moment is " 95° C is the value i advise to choose in the settings " but i asked again and wait to see if i can get more infos about that ...
 

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As simple as I could say when bike is running on track wind through in radiator so fan not needed. Fine thermostat tuning will be more helpful than fan switch point in this case.
 
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